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[Music]

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oh

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[Music]

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so

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hey guys how's it going welcome back to

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the channel

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i'm vinnie adams it is saturday so you

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better believe

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there we go good to see everybody here

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in the live chat so many familiar faces

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thank you thank you so much for being

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here i really

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really appreciate it

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i hope everyone's had a good week and

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he's already having a good weekend

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i've had a great day family stuff um and

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now we're here so

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um

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i can't wait for this conversation so

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i've been following this guy's work for

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quite some time um

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but finally with the mystery

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has kind of

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dissipated slightly because we now

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we now know who this man is and so i'm

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just can't wait so i'm just going to

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bring him in straight away so

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please welcome

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darren aka exo academia darren thank you

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so much for being here man vinnie happy

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to be here with you and hi to everybody

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that's out there i know it's it's this

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is like i said i've been looking forward

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to this for some time since since we

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sort of first spoke and

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yeah i guess the first thing would be is

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like

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you were kind of anonymous for quite

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some time and

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i can tell you from my point of view

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that that added some serious mystique to

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everything you do um so tell me what was

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the decision to finally sort of make

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that step into to being yourself or

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showing

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yourself right well when i began my

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podcast i was thinking you know i didn't

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i wasn't sure how much traction the

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podcast would get you know i just was

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interested in beginning it so i could

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explore topics that i was interested in

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uh not just the ufo phenomenon but you

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know sci phenomena and paranormal stuff

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and the fabric of reality and how it's

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all connected and the more i

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investigated it the more i realized it

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was all connected

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um and as that got more traction and

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people started interacting with me i

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started getting you know invitations to

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be involved in various things and

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projects and whatnot

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and it just became you know increasingly

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difficult to do that as an anonymous

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person with an alien avatar being my

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only identity

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so uh you know as i got involved in a

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couple events uh more people became

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aware of my name and what i look like

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and i just kind of got used to it

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and once that kind of happened i'm like

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yeah this you know this is nice and i

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know that for myself i recognize that

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the mystique can be nice for a while but

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eventually you get to the point where

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uh you know you pick up some information

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from people's body language and their

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demeanor and their presence so i thought

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yeah i could see how people would like

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to have more of the uh the 3d

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impressions so

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so that's why i sort of came out and uh

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made myself known

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yeah that's awesome i think it's a great

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thing man i do like i mean as much as i

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loved the mystique i do

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i do like that person personable

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approach just as much so yeah it's great

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so like you mentioned there about

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connections as well between different

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aspects of the phenomena and paranormal

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and stuff like that but let's take it

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back and do you remember what first sort

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of sparked your interest and what got

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you into these kind of subjects

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yeah that goes back a long way i would

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say um

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when i was like a toddler even um my mom

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used to uh remark that i was i would go

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outside and look at the stars kind of

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thing in the backyard and

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um

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was asking

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big questions at an early age uh which

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she definitely noticed and

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kind of has jokingly said that i sort of

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came in like a like a little adult and

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was asking deep questions early on

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um and then i think uh later on um i got

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interested in whitley strieber's work

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was really fascinated with his uh

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his books and his experience and trying

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to understand that um you know i

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remember going up to like mountain

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cabins with friends of mine in the

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pacific northwest and uh

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you know one time i remember us going

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around a corner we were driving up to

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this cabin it was middle of the night

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kind of thing we ran out went around a

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corner in

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this huge light suddenly shone down on

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us from the trees right and so i had

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just read um communion at the time

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so i kind of freaked out and thought

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immediately you know this is it

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abduction time uh turns out it was like

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a floodlight that went on over this area

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where they keep all the salt for the

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roads and so it just like gets triggered

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by movement but for for a second there i

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thought for sure

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it was that and by the way there was

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another occasion when we got to the

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cabin

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at one point we were like playing a

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board game you know again middle of

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nowhere kind of thing up in the in the

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wilderness um

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and uh the front door suddenly swung

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open in the middle you know like 10

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o'clock at night it's dark and it was an

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interesting sociological experiment

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because everyone around the table

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freaked out but everybody had a

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different fear about what it was like

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what one of the women thought it was

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like an axe murderer somebody else

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thought it was a bear somebody else

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thought it was a cougar and i

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immediately thought scream aliens you

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know

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again i just read uh willie strieber's

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book so

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that kind of got me in into that and

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then um then i went for like probably 10

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years or so where i didn't think about

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it so much

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i was still in the back burner i was

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interested in um

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different esoteric topics and i was

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interested again reality and whatnot and

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consciousness

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that's why it was kind of like the

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perfect brew when later on i kind of

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realized it was all connected uh but

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then you know having kind of an

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anomalous experience of my own

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um

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know around 2005 also uh kind of uh

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added to that

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um

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and then

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just being married to somebody at the

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time who had

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just had unusual encounters had kind of

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you know anomalous stuff going on and i

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was actually more skeptical originally

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um and had more of a nuts and bolts kind

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of perspective i think um

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and yet i saw it consistently happening

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over time and so that kind of led me

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into that too

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and then when i finally got in sort of

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like around the whole new york times

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2017 time really came back in strong

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then

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and saw the overlap with psi phenomena

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and you know quantum theory and

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consciousness then it really had me

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hooked and i've been i've been going

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strong ever since

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amazing see i come from really much

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different background i spend a probably

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a decade plus

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coming from such a nuts and bolts

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research aspect and it's only in the

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last year year and a half that i've kind

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of

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since i've been doing this and my social

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media accounts found people that are

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coming from from more similar side to

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yourself with consciousness and stuff

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and

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i'm really just want to absorb all that

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kind of consciousness stuff but i am

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still very new to it so

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how would you describe consciousness

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because it's such a big word and it can

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mean so many different things so if you

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were to relate it to the phenomena and

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the paranormal how how would you

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describe it to somebody

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well i think that the first thing i

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would touch on in terms of how it

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immediately connects to the ufo

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phenomenon is that um so many of the

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experiencers or contactees or witnesses

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um have had unusual

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um

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perceptual shifts in what goes on right

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so it's uh you and i might look at a

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truck drive by i think in the uk you

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would say a lorry would drive

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and

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you know we would probably describe the

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same thing right and if we got 100

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people around us we would describe the

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exact same thing same color same basic

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shape you might get some differences

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around you know just witnesses remember

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things slightly differently

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even in a court of law that would happen

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but what's fascinating with the with the

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ufo phenomenon is that people will

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sometimes get a custom perceptual

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experience so you could have two people

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um you know like in the classic

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abduction case you might have one person

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that remembers a ufo

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and where and a brother remembers a

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school bus you know or cases where one

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person remembers um

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you know a camper van and somebody else

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remembers a cabin with christmas lights

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even though it was july you know what i

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mean like weird stuff like that where

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at first you start saying you know is it

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just that they're playing with our

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perceptual apparatus you know are they

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changing how we're perceiving what

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they're there you know people often talk

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about screen memories you know they they

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put one memory in place of what's really

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going on either to fool you depending on

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your point of view or to maybe make it

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less uh you know debilitating because

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they might be shocking to see

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but the more you dig it goes even deeper

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than that and people often will have

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changes in

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not just how they perceive the world in

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terms of visually but

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they will have personality shifts you

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know they will have

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they will change their values you know

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that not just because they suddenly go

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oh okay there maybe there's et's out

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there

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but something about the way they see

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reality seems to change you know and uh

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people like gary nolan are doing some

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really interesting research into

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as i'm sure you know like is there

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differences in the brain you know

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that we could

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track this to but that of course raises

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interesting questions around

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so are some people predisposed to this

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at birth and is there a genetic lineage

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or does something get switched on

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when we look at psi phenomena it seems

283
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that everybody like dean raiden's work

284
00:09:59,030 --> 00:09:56,560
would suggest that everyone has some

285
00:10:00,949 --> 00:09:59,040
degree of psych capacity

286
00:10:02,550 --> 00:10:00,959
some much more than others you know it's

287
00:10:04,150 --> 00:10:02,560
really interesting how

288
00:10:06,630 --> 00:10:04,160
some of their research has suggested

289
00:10:08,389 --> 00:10:06,640
that in certain parts of the world where

290
00:10:10,230 --> 00:10:08,399
there was persecution and basically

291
00:10:12,470 --> 00:10:10,240
killing of certain people that were

292
00:10:14,230 --> 00:10:12,480
considered witches or witch doctors or

293
00:10:15,670 --> 00:10:14,240
anybody who kind of had

294
00:10:16,790 --> 00:10:15,680
information they shouldn't have had it

295
00:10:18,790 --> 00:10:16,800
was assumed that that was like

296
00:10:20,470 --> 00:10:18,800
information from the devil or whatever

297
00:10:22,310 --> 00:10:20,480
and so those people were like you know

298
00:10:24,870 --> 00:10:22,320
often put to death and so you actually

299
00:10:27,030 --> 00:10:24,880
can see that now when you track the

300
00:10:28,870 --> 00:10:27,040
lineage of those populations that the

301
00:10:30,870 --> 00:10:28,880
people who weren't in those places tend

302
00:10:32,630 --> 00:10:30,880
to still have the strongest ability when

303
00:10:34,630 --> 00:10:32,640
it comes to terms to side capacity and

304
00:10:35,590 --> 00:10:34,640
when i say psi capacity

305
00:10:37,590 --> 00:10:35,600
i mean

306
00:10:39,670 --> 00:10:37,600
being able to access information outside

307
00:10:41,829 --> 00:10:39,680
the parameters of space time outside the

308
00:10:45,269 --> 00:10:41,839
the constrict you know the constrictions

309
00:10:46,790 --> 00:10:45,279
of space time as we understand it right

310
00:10:48,630 --> 00:10:46,800
and then you look at really great

311
00:10:50,550 --> 00:10:48,640
researchers like jacques vallee who've

312
00:10:51,750 --> 00:10:50,560
looked into this for decades and decades

313
00:10:53,190 --> 00:10:51,760
and everyone says you know if you

314
00:10:55,030 --> 00:10:53,200
haven't read chocolate you don't really

315
00:10:57,910 --> 00:10:55,040
understand the ufo phenomenon at all

316
00:11:01,190 --> 00:10:57,920
that's like you know ufo phenomenon 101

317
00:11:02,949 --> 00:11:01,200
is reid chocolate and john keeler

318
00:11:04,790 --> 00:11:02,959
and what he says is that you know the

319
00:11:06,310 --> 00:11:04,800
what the ufo phenomenon teaches us is

320
00:11:08,389 --> 00:11:06,320
that we don't actually understand space

321
00:11:09,990 --> 00:11:08,399
time it's not just that we there's some

322
00:11:12,230 --> 00:11:10,000
pieces we're missing you know we're just

323
00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:12,240
missing the cherry on top he's saying

324
00:11:17,030 --> 00:11:14,800
they do stuff that just to us looks

325
00:11:17,990 --> 00:11:17,040
incredible um

326
00:11:19,990 --> 00:11:18,000
so

327
00:11:23,269 --> 00:11:20,000
yeah all that together makes it very

328
00:11:25,110 --> 00:11:23,279
clear that when they operate with us it

329
00:11:26,710 --> 00:11:25,120
seems to be at a level of consciousness

330
00:11:29,590 --> 00:11:26,720
and and the last piece i'll add to that

331
00:11:31,590 --> 00:11:29,600
is that a lot of the data again with

332
00:11:32,870 --> 00:11:31,600
experiencers of witnesses and i don't

333
00:11:34,630 --> 00:11:32,880
just mean people who remember being

334
00:11:36,150 --> 00:11:34,640
abducted i mean even people who just saw

335
00:11:38,310 --> 00:11:36,160
something in the sky

336
00:11:39,509 --> 00:11:38,320
um you know there there's there's

337
00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:39,519
changes

338
00:11:44,069 --> 00:11:41,760
in them that makes them more likely than

339
00:11:45,590 --> 00:11:44,079
the average population then on to have

340
00:11:47,750 --> 00:11:45,600
something like a near-death experience

341
00:11:48,630 --> 00:11:47,760
or a precognitive dream

342
00:11:50,629 --> 00:11:48,640
um

343
00:11:53,110 --> 00:11:50,639
you know uh even to experience

344
00:11:55,269 --> 00:11:53,120
telekinetic like uh you know effects in

345
00:11:57,430 --> 00:11:55,279
their home poltergeist is somehow

346
00:11:59,350 --> 00:11:57,440
connected you know the the skinwalker

347
00:12:01,910 --> 00:11:59,360
ranch kind of hitchhiker effect seeing

348
00:12:03,350 --> 00:12:01,920
ufos and seeing sasquatch and

349
00:12:06,629 --> 00:12:03,360
seeing portals

350
00:12:08,790 --> 00:12:06,639
and then a relative or a neighbor three

351
00:12:11,430 --> 00:12:08,800
thousand miles away suddenly has

352
00:12:13,030 --> 00:12:11,440
uh experiences that suggest is connected

353
00:12:15,030 --> 00:12:13,040
to someone they didn't even necessarily

354
00:12:16,389 --> 00:12:15,040
know that well but are somehow socially

355
00:12:19,110 --> 00:12:16,399
connected to

356
00:12:21,269 --> 00:12:19,120
again all of this suggests that somehow

357
00:12:23,190 --> 00:12:21,279
the the the common link between all of

358
00:12:24,470 --> 00:12:23,200
those different kind of phenomena is

359
00:12:26,310 --> 00:12:24,480
consciousness

360
00:12:27,430 --> 00:12:26,320
and so that's why for me it's even come

361
00:12:28,949 --> 00:12:27,440
down to

362
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:28,959
is this saying something fundamental

363
00:12:33,750 --> 00:12:31,200
about reality and that's the level at

364
00:12:35,269 --> 00:12:33,760
which these others are operating on and

365
00:12:37,509 --> 00:12:35,279
they're sort of hacking into our

366
00:12:40,470 --> 00:12:37,519
construct which is space time rather

367
00:12:41,750 --> 00:12:40,480
than space-time being fundamental

368
00:12:43,430 --> 00:12:41,760
amazing

369
00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:43,440
so do you see

370
00:12:46,710 --> 00:12:44,800
like i said i come from that nuts and

371
00:12:48,629 --> 00:12:46,720
bolts and i'm sort of beginning to open

372
00:12:50,310 --> 00:12:48,639
up to the consciousness side but

373
00:12:52,310 --> 00:12:50,320
where does it first meet do you think

374
00:12:55,110 --> 00:12:52,320
for a lot of people like how can we

375
00:12:57,190 --> 00:12:55,120
intertwine the two to to then sort of go

376
00:12:59,430 --> 00:12:57,200
in one direction but encompassing all

377
00:13:01,509 --> 00:12:59,440
aspects of it

378
00:13:03,670 --> 00:13:01,519
well i think um

379
00:13:06,470 --> 00:13:03,680
some people you know that comment more

380
00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:06,480
from an episome balls perspective um

381
00:13:09,829 --> 00:13:08,160
will focus on the craft which i can

382
00:13:11,430 --> 00:13:09,839
understand you know that was my initial

383
00:13:14,310 --> 00:13:11,440
introduction too it's really interesting

384
00:13:15,750 --> 00:13:14,320
in terms of technology right um

385
00:13:17,430 --> 00:13:15,760
and and by the way that's another point

386
00:13:18,310 --> 00:13:17,440
that's really fascinating is you you

387
00:13:20,550 --> 00:13:18,320
can't

388
00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:20,560
it's really hard to tease out like the

389
00:13:25,269 --> 00:13:22,880
spiritual energetic consciousness

390
00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:25,279
aspects from the technology sometimes

391
00:13:28,790 --> 00:13:27,120
people who have had the most

392
00:13:31,190 --> 00:13:28,800
you know spiritually transformative

393
00:13:33,430 --> 00:13:31,200
experiences have also come across meta

394
00:13:34,470 --> 00:13:33,440
material you know that's later been you

395
00:13:35,990 --> 00:13:34,480
know

396
00:13:38,069 --> 00:13:36,000
examined by the government and whatnot

397
00:13:40,629 --> 00:13:38,079
so and has even led to some

398
00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:40,639
breakthroughs in you know biotechnology

399
00:13:43,990 --> 00:13:42,320
and things like that so

400
00:13:45,509 --> 00:13:44,000
really fascinating stuff that people

401
00:13:47,110 --> 00:13:45,519
usually think of as being separate

402
00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:47,120
topics

403
00:13:53,189 --> 00:13:52,310
take experience for accounts seriously

404
00:13:54,629 --> 00:13:53,199
you know it doesn't mean you have to

405
00:13:56,310 --> 00:13:54,639
take everyone seriously doesn't mean

406
00:13:57,910 --> 00:13:56,320
that everyone is telling the absolute

407
00:13:59,990 --> 00:13:57,920
truth doesn't mean that everyone's

408
00:14:01,590 --> 00:14:00,000
remembering perfectly but when you look

409
00:14:03,350 --> 00:14:01,600
at the body of data the literature

410
00:14:04,790 --> 00:14:03,360
behind experience for accounts and you

411
00:14:06,949 --> 00:14:04,800
look at the credibility of someone like

412
00:14:08,790 --> 00:14:06,959
a jacques villa who does his homework

413
00:14:09,910 --> 00:14:08,800
right interviews people has done it for

414
00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:09,920
decades

415
00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:11,760
goes in with unprejudiced eyes and

416
00:14:14,790 --> 00:14:13,279
really tries to just see what really the

417
00:14:16,310 --> 00:14:14,800
data is telling him

418
00:14:18,230 --> 00:14:16,320
and he he checks these people's

419
00:14:19,990 --> 00:14:18,240
credibility they're professional people

420
00:14:21,189 --> 00:14:20,000
who have reputations and families

421
00:14:22,310 --> 00:14:21,199
they're not the kind of people who are

422
00:14:23,990 --> 00:14:22,320
looking for

423
00:14:26,150 --> 00:14:24,000
fame or fortune or saying something

424
00:14:28,389 --> 00:14:26,160
crazy or being in the national enquirer

425
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:28,399
uh they they actually often it's the

426
00:14:32,150 --> 00:14:30,000
last thing they want to acknowledge and

427
00:14:33,509 --> 00:14:32,160
yet eventually they do because it is so

428
00:14:34,949 --> 00:14:33,519
transformative

429
00:14:36,150 --> 00:14:34,959
so i would say to people that are new to

430
00:14:38,069 --> 00:14:36,160
it just

431
00:14:39,670 --> 00:14:38,079
keep keep following the rabbit trail see

432
00:14:41,350 --> 00:14:39,680
where it takes you you know see how how

433
00:14:43,990 --> 00:14:41,360
far down the hole you get

434
00:14:46,389 --> 00:14:44,000
um and i think you'll quickly find that

435
00:14:47,670 --> 00:14:46,399
you end up in this territory inevitably

436
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:47,680
and then i would just say you know keep

437
00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:49,920
an open mind um i recently heard gary

438
00:14:53,670 --> 00:14:52,000
nolan talking about this

439
00:14:55,509 --> 00:14:53,680
for the skeptics of the world not just

440
00:14:57,189 --> 00:14:55,519
like you know debunkers but also like

441
00:14:58,629 --> 00:14:57,199
scientific skeptics

442
00:15:00,629 --> 00:14:58,639
his point would be

443
00:15:02,069 --> 00:15:00,639
clearly we have outlier data that's

444
00:15:04,790 --> 00:15:02,079
saying that our current model for

445
00:15:06,550 --> 00:15:04,800
reality is insufficient and it's

446
00:15:07,350 --> 00:15:06,560
insufficient to a degree that we need to

447
00:15:08,470 --> 00:15:07,360
ask

448
00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:08,480
some really

449
00:15:12,069 --> 00:15:10,000
you know daunting questions about some

450
00:15:14,389 --> 00:15:12,079
of our deepest assumptions about what is

451
00:15:16,389 --> 00:15:14,399
real what is reality that's what this

452
00:15:18,230 --> 00:15:16,399
data seems to be telling us and so i

453
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:18,240
just say that people embrace that try to

454
00:15:21,430 --> 00:15:19,920
treat it like an adventure i understand

455
00:15:23,189 --> 00:15:21,440
for some people that's

456
00:15:25,990 --> 00:15:23,199
like discombobulating but i would say

457
00:15:27,670 --> 00:15:26,000
just follow that see where it goes take

458
00:15:29,670 --> 00:15:27,680
on a child like demeanor if you can that

459
00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:29,680
we're all in this really unique time

460
00:15:32,710 --> 00:15:31,199
we're discovering things for the first

461
00:15:35,189 --> 00:15:32,720
time together and it might be

462
00:15:36,230 --> 00:15:35,199
civilization changing

463
00:15:39,030 --> 00:15:36,240
excellent

464
00:15:41,110 --> 00:15:39,040
um i've got a question here from elena

465
00:15:43,590 --> 00:15:41,120
hello elena thank you for the question

466
00:15:47,829 --> 00:15:43,600
um what do you think the consciousness

467
00:15:50,389 --> 00:15:47,839
gravity and magnetism connection is

468
00:15:52,790 --> 00:15:50,399
yeah excellent question elena um

469
00:15:55,829 --> 00:15:52,800
yeah that that's a fascinating one

470
00:15:56,870 --> 00:15:55,839
i would say that

471
00:15:58,710 --> 00:15:56,880
so you look at someone like donald

472
00:16:00,069 --> 00:15:58,720
hoffman's work right and what he'll say

473
00:16:01,990 --> 00:16:00,079
is that

474
00:16:04,389 --> 00:16:02,000
what we often notice in in physical

475
00:16:06,790 --> 00:16:04,399
reality is a correlation effect but not

476
00:16:08,389 --> 00:16:06,800
necessarily a causation so

477
00:16:09,829 --> 00:16:08,399
for instance he would say you know if

478
00:16:11,590 --> 00:16:09,839
you um

479
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:11,600
uh you might have people that show up at

480
00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:13,600
a train platform

481
00:16:17,829 --> 00:16:15,600
um and then you know ten minutes later a

482
00:16:20,150 --> 00:16:17,839
train shows up or five minutes later and

483
00:16:22,230 --> 00:16:20,160
so you could look at that and say aha

484
00:16:24,470 --> 00:16:22,240
people arriving at a platform cause a

485
00:16:25,749 --> 00:16:24,480
train to come right and we would say no

486
00:16:27,590 --> 00:16:25,759
that's not true

487
00:16:30,069 --> 00:16:27,600
what's going on is some deeper reality

488
00:16:32,069 --> 00:16:30,079
like a train schedule is such that it

489
00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:32,079
causes both people to gather together

490
00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:34,000
right so that's the deeper reality and

491
00:16:38,150 --> 00:16:36,240
if you look at too superficial a level

492
00:16:39,670 --> 00:16:38,160
you could make the wrong conclusions

493
00:16:40,710 --> 00:16:39,680
draw the wrong conclusions about what's

494
00:16:42,550 --> 00:16:40,720
going on

495
00:16:44,949 --> 00:16:42,560
and so what he's saying is even when we

496
00:16:46,870 --> 00:16:44,959
see even when gary nolan and jacqueline

497
00:16:48,550 --> 00:16:46,880
are looking at

498
00:16:50,550 --> 00:16:48,560
you know different parts of the brain

499
00:16:52,710 --> 00:16:50,560
and how that seems to be impacted by

500
00:16:54,629 --> 00:16:52,720
contact experiences

501
00:16:56,949 --> 00:16:54,639
that might still be a correlate rather

502
00:16:58,470 --> 00:16:56,959
than a causation kind of factor and so

503
00:16:59,990 --> 00:16:58,480
in the same way i would say with gravity

504
00:17:02,150 --> 00:17:00,000
and magnetism

505
00:17:03,670 --> 00:17:02,160
that whatever the deeper reality is

506
00:17:05,429 --> 00:17:03,680
whether it's consciousness or something

507
00:17:08,150 --> 00:17:05,439
else that sort of is the is the bedrock

508
00:17:09,990 --> 00:17:08,160
behind the construct of space-time it

509
00:17:11,750 --> 00:17:10,000
ends up being manifested in such a way

510
00:17:13,510 --> 00:17:11,760
that we see these correlates with

511
00:17:15,110 --> 00:17:13,520
gravity and magnetism

512
00:17:17,110 --> 00:17:15,120
i don't necessarily think those are

513
00:17:18,789 --> 00:17:17,120
causing it any more than i think people

514
00:17:19,669 --> 00:17:18,799
arriving at a train station is causing a

515
00:17:21,510 --> 00:17:19,679
train

516
00:17:23,029 --> 00:17:21,520
but it does tell us that it's somehow

517
00:17:25,189 --> 00:17:23,039
connected and it's pointing to some

518
00:17:27,189 --> 00:17:25,199
deeper reality and i think we should pay

519
00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:27,199
attention to that and um

520
00:17:31,110 --> 00:17:28,640
even when it comes to things that people

521
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:31,120
might usually ignore around astrology

522
00:17:35,990 --> 00:17:33,679
which i'm not big into but i'm saying

523
00:17:37,750 --> 00:17:36,000
there does seem to be some

524
00:17:40,150 --> 00:17:37,760
something behind the idea that certain

525
00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:40,160
magnetic anomalies

526
00:17:44,789 --> 00:17:42,640
or certain gravitational alignments

527
00:17:47,029 --> 00:17:44,799
can perhaps change our consciousness

528
00:17:48,470 --> 00:17:47,039
because that again somehow affects the

529
00:17:51,029 --> 00:17:48,480
energy waves that travel through the

530
00:17:52,950 --> 00:17:51,039
cosmos which we uh you know are

531
00:17:55,350 --> 00:17:52,960
streaming into our brain even though i

532
00:17:57,270 --> 00:17:55,360
think our conscious is non-local so it's

533
00:17:58,390 --> 00:17:57,280
very likely that does play a role and

534
00:18:00,630 --> 00:17:58,400
that would be an interesting thing to

535
00:18:01,990 --> 00:18:00,640
study but i still think ultimately that

536
00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:02,000
points to some

537
00:18:06,150 --> 00:18:03,600
underlying reality that is beyond

538
00:18:08,390 --> 00:18:06,160
spacetime itself

539
00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:08,400
yeah that's so eloquently put as well i

540
00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:10,160
love it i absolutely do and one thing i

541
00:18:14,070 --> 00:18:11,919
have noticed that you know a lot of

542
00:18:17,270 --> 00:18:14,080
these things go beyond our knowledge so

543
00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:17,280
they basically become just hypothesis

544
00:18:20,070 --> 00:18:18,000
of

545
00:18:21,590 --> 00:18:20,080
what the possibilities might be and i do

546
00:18:23,350 --> 00:18:21,600
see a lot of frustration from some

547
00:18:25,110 --> 00:18:23,360
people with that but what i've learned

548
00:18:27,590 --> 00:18:25,120
to do is be patient

549
00:18:29,190 --> 00:18:27,600
form hypotheses let's give it time for

550
00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:29,200
people to work these things out and i

551
00:18:33,350 --> 00:18:31,280
think that's i find something comforting

552
00:18:34,870 --> 00:18:33,360
in that people are just using their

553
00:18:36,950 --> 00:18:34,880
brains to find all these different

554
00:18:39,430 --> 00:18:36,960
possibilities and you know hopefully one

555
00:18:42,549 --> 00:18:39,440
day we do find one that we suddenly

556
00:18:43,590 --> 00:18:42,559
prove and it's another aha moment so

557
00:18:45,190 --> 00:18:43,600
yeah

558
00:18:47,110 --> 00:18:45,200
i i really do

559
00:18:49,029 --> 00:18:47,120
this is why i'm new and so open to

560
00:18:51,270 --> 00:18:49,039
learning from this other new perspective

561
00:18:52,870 --> 00:18:51,280
that's come into my realm so i really

562
00:18:54,390 --> 00:18:52,880
appreciate that but

563
00:18:55,270 --> 00:18:54,400
one thing i guess that i

564
00:18:57,430 --> 00:18:55,280
have

565
00:19:00,950 --> 00:18:57,440
been aware of regarding or relating to

566
00:19:03,510 --> 00:19:00,960
consciousness throughout the years was

567
00:19:05,270 --> 00:19:03,520
ce5 i guess was my first introduction to

568
00:19:07,590 --> 00:19:05,280
it but obviously now i i'm more likely

569
00:19:09,669 --> 00:19:07,600
to call it a you know

570
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:09,679
ice or human initiated

571
00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:12,960
contact experiences so

572
00:19:17,590 --> 00:19:14,720
again it's not something i've really had

573
00:19:20,150 --> 00:19:17,600
a chance to try or even speak about that

574
00:19:21,909 --> 00:19:20,160
much so again where does that relate

575
00:19:24,470 --> 00:19:21,919
again to consciousness but the ufo

576
00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:24,480
subject as a whole

577
00:19:28,150 --> 00:19:26,160
right so that that relates to what i'm

578
00:19:30,230 --> 00:19:28,160
saying about space time initially first

579
00:19:34,070 --> 00:19:30,240
of all because um

580
00:19:35,430 --> 00:19:34,080
it seems like the data behind c5 and by

581
00:19:36,630 --> 00:19:35,440
the way i would point that out that this

582
00:19:39,110 --> 00:19:36,640
is important i think for people who

583
00:19:40,950 --> 00:19:39,120
again who are more nuts and bolts

584
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:40,960
is that

585
00:19:45,190 --> 00:19:43,200
these realities exist in the data that's

586
00:19:46,710 --> 00:19:45,200
where i'm getting this from and so

587
00:19:48,630 --> 00:19:46,720
it's not about wishful thinking it's not

588
00:19:50,950 --> 00:19:48,640
about some people hoping that this is

589
00:19:53,350 --> 00:19:50,960
all love and light and angelic or vice

590
00:19:54,710 --> 00:19:53,360
versa it's about saying what are what

591
00:19:56,230 --> 00:19:54,720
does the body of literature tell us

592
00:19:58,390 --> 00:19:56,240
about people's experiences as they've

593
00:20:00,230 --> 00:19:58,400
been reported over time

594
00:20:02,149 --> 00:20:00,240
and even if you downplay one of those

595
00:20:03,909 --> 00:20:02,159
data points ultimately that creates a

596
00:20:06,789 --> 00:20:03,919
data set which is compelling right

597
00:20:08,549 --> 00:20:06,799
something's going on

598
00:20:10,149 --> 00:20:08,559
but you know with with the space time

599
00:20:11,750 --> 00:20:10,159
thing the reason why i say that comes

600
00:20:14,549 --> 00:20:11,760
into it is because

601
00:20:15,350 --> 00:20:14,559
it seems like there's times where

602
00:20:16,390 --> 00:20:15,360
um

603
00:20:19,190 --> 00:20:16,400
we can

604
00:20:20,470 --> 00:20:19,200
initiate contact uh you know say you

605
00:20:22,310 --> 00:20:20,480
know sort of send an intention a

606
00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:22,320
positive intention to

607
00:20:28,070 --> 00:20:26,000
meet with uh this other intelligence uh

608
00:20:29,909 --> 00:20:28,080
that is also positive and benign uh

609
00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:29,919
benevolent you know we want to meet and

610
00:20:33,590 --> 00:20:31,840
have some sort of introduction

611
00:20:34,710 --> 00:20:33,600
and then sometimes it can happen almost

612
00:20:35,830 --> 00:20:34,720
immediately

613
00:20:37,350 --> 00:20:35,840
um

614
00:20:39,270 --> 00:20:37,360
even though supposedly they're coming

615
00:20:40,789 --> 00:20:39,280
from somewhere else in the physical

616
00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:40,799
universe right and yet it happens

617
00:20:44,710 --> 00:20:42,960
instantaneously so you could say they

618
00:20:45,990 --> 00:20:44,720
have just really great warp drives or

619
00:20:47,909 --> 00:20:46,000
you could say

620
00:20:50,230 --> 00:20:47,919
somehow they seem to be bypassing space

621
00:20:52,950 --> 00:20:50,240
time altogether again that it's not

622
00:20:55,350 --> 00:20:52,960
uh or they're using a wormhole to like

623
00:20:57,029 --> 00:20:55,360
go from a to b like by folding space you

624
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:57,039
know something like that

625
00:21:00,310 --> 00:20:58,559
but again i think it's more saying that

626
00:21:01,990 --> 00:21:00,320
something about they they start they're

627
00:21:04,149 --> 00:21:02,000
hacking into our construct the same way

628
00:21:05,750 --> 00:21:04,159
that i might drop a folder into your

629
00:21:08,230 --> 00:21:05,760
desktop and you might go wait where'd

630
00:21:09,990 --> 00:21:08,240
that desktop folder come from i've got

631
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:10,000
to chase around my computer to find out

632
00:21:13,669 --> 00:21:12,080
you know where this alien is that put

633
00:21:15,909 --> 00:21:13,679
this folder here and actually the alien

634
00:21:17,510 --> 00:21:15,919
just hacked in with the wi-fi you know

635
00:21:19,350 --> 00:21:17,520
connection and dropped it in and dropped

636
00:21:20,789 --> 00:21:19,360
back out again and we wonder how are

637
00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:20,799
they coming in and coming out but that's

638
00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:23,200
that's what i think it's more like

639
00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:24,480
um

640
00:21:28,710 --> 00:21:26,640
yeah and with the with the ce5 the other

641
00:21:30,549 --> 00:21:28,720
thing that's interesting even beyond c5

642
00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:30,559
you think back to like the tic tac event

643
00:21:34,470 --> 00:21:32,240
right and how

644
00:21:36,870 --> 00:21:34,480
it seemed to know the rendezvous point

645
00:21:38,549 --> 00:21:36,880
before uh it had been even announced and

646
00:21:40,789 --> 00:21:38,559
it was that's one of the most top secret

647
00:21:42,950 --> 00:21:40,799
points uh you know data points right was

648
00:21:44,230 --> 00:21:42,960
that somehow this intelligence knew

649
00:21:46,549 --> 00:21:44,240
where the rendezvous point was going to

650
00:21:48,310 --> 00:21:46,559
be ahead of time and

651
00:21:49,909 --> 00:21:48,320
so again it seems like there's this

652
00:21:51,830 --> 00:21:49,919
ability to have knowledge outside of

653
00:21:54,149 --> 00:21:51,840
space time

654
00:21:57,270 --> 00:21:54,159
and with c5 yeah it's just uh you know

655
00:21:59,590 --> 00:21:57,280
it's about making that connection um

656
00:22:02,230 --> 00:21:59,600
and there are people who will literally

657
00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:02,240
say that uh

658
00:22:05,029 --> 00:22:04,000
they will take a photo in the sky just

659
00:22:06,470 --> 00:22:05,039
because they'll have an inkling

660
00:22:08,390 --> 00:22:06,480
sometimes to take a photo in this guy

661
00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:08,400
they're not thinking ufo again this is

662
00:22:11,510 --> 00:22:10,240
the consciousness piece they just have

663
00:22:13,110 --> 00:22:11,520
some reason to believe they should take

664
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:13,120
a photo maybe up in like a part of the

665
00:22:16,390 --> 00:22:14,960
sky there's nothing really there

666
00:22:18,230 --> 00:22:16,400
and only later on will they actually

667
00:22:20,390 --> 00:22:18,240
find a ufo

668
00:22:22,230 --> 00:22:20,400
in the photo so that's fascinating for a

669
00:22:23,270 --> 00:22:22,240
couple reasons one is that

670
00:22:25,430 --> 00:22:23,280
they were somehow directed

671
00:22:27,029 --> 00:22:25,440
telepathically to do that

672
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:27,039
number two with the naked eye they

673
00:22:31,350 --> 00:22:29,440
couldn't see anything and yet

674
00:22:34,710 --> 00:22:31,360
after the fact in the artifact of the

675
00:22:36,789 --> 00:22:34,720
photo it's there right and so again

676
00:22:39,029 --> 00:22:36,799
these kinds of phenomena that happen

677
00:22:40,390 --> 00:22:39,039
seem to question our understanding of

678
00:22:42,149 --> 00:22:40,400
how things are supposed to happen in

679
00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:42,159
reality

680
00:22:46,230 --> 00:22:44,880
amazing yeah do you think that

681
00:22:49,110 --> 00:22:46,240
do you think that if

682
00:22:50,789 --> 00:22:49,120
if if they can manipulate space time or

683
00:22:52,310 --> 00:22:50,799
even exist outside of it do you think

684
00:22:55,909 --> 00:22:52,320
they could

685
00:22:57,990 --> 00:22:55,919
live or dwell somewhere that there is no

686
00:22:59,909 --> 00:22:58,000
space time you know rather than just a

687
00:23:01,909 --> 00:22:59,919
different dimension that

688
00:23:04,149 --> 00:23:01,919
you know does have those kind of

689
00:23:05,590 --> 00:23:04,159
laws maybe i'm not quite sure what the

690
00:23:09,669 --> 00:23:05,600
right words are but

691
00:23:11,590 --> 00:23:09,679
are they or could they be that different

692
00:23:14,310 --> 00:23:11,600
that they can just

693
00:23:15,350 --> 00:23:14,320
bypass all the things we know and we we

694
00:23:17,590 --> 00:23:15,360
know through

695
00:23:18,870 --> 00:23:17,600
our knowledge of physics and and then i

696
00:23:19,830 --> 00:23:18,880
guess the second part of that question

697
00:23:20,630 --> 00:23:19,840
is

698
00:23:22,390 --> 00:23:20,640
well

699
00:23:24,230 --> 00:23:22,400
i suppose it's a separate question but

700
00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:24,240
could it could it be dangerous in any

701
00:23:28,710 --> 00:23:26,320
way is there any danger to human

702
00:23:30,149 --> 00:23:28,720
initiated contact right

703
00:23:33,669 --> 00:23:30,159
so the first question i think that's a

704
00:23:36,549 --> 00:23:34,630
one of the things that's interesting

705
00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:36,559
when you look back at history

706
00:23:41,029 --> 00:23:38,880
is that the hypotheses we come up with

707
00:23:43,990 --> 00:23:41,039
to try to make sense of the phenomenon

708
00:23:45,269 --> 00:23:44,000
often arises out of cutting edge cutting

709
00:23:47,350 --> 00:23:45,279
edge physics of the time right so

710
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:47,360
whatever our cutting edge physics is

711
00:23:50,149 --> 00:23:48,960
suggesting might be possible we start

712
00:23:52,149 --> 00:23:50,159
saying well maybe that's how we make

713
00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:52,159
sense of the ufo phenomenon

714
00:23:56,870 --> 00:23:55,200
so for people like valet again um they

715
00:23:58,390 --> 00:23:56,880
started thinking interdimensional right

716
00:24:00,470 --> 00:23:58,400
when we started having

717
00:24:03,750 --> 00:24:00,480
uh you know m theory and you know

718
00:24:05,750 --> 00:24:03,760
notions of like 11 12 dimensions

719
00:24:07,350 --> 00:24:05,760
then people started imagining and the

720
00:24:09,029 --> 00:24:07,360
idea of a multiverse right so there you

721
00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:09,039
have the idea that

722
00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:10,400
um

723
00:24:14,470 --> 00:24:12,720
you know rather than believing that we

724
00:24:17,350 --> 00:24:14,480
just happen to be in a universe it seems

725
00:24:19,750 --> 00:24:17,360
really custom crafted for us you know

726
00:24:21,190 --> 00:24:19,760
which makes us seem really important so

727
00:24:23,430 --> 00:24:21,200
what's happened with science is they say

728
00:24:25,990 --> 00:24:23,440
no that's just coincidental because

729
00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:26,000
actually every time a decision point

730
00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:28,400
comes uh the universe splits in two and

731
00:24:31,350 --> 00:24:29,840
so there's like a multiverse of many

732
00:24:33,269 --> 00:24:31,360
many universes and we just happen to be

733
00:24:35,190 --> 00:24:33,279
in the one not surprisingly that is the

734
00:24:36,950 --> 00:24:35,200
one that's suitable for us but it's not

735
00:24:39,430 --> 00:24:36,960
because we're special it's just because

736
00:24:41,430 --> 00:24:39,440
this is one of many right and so that

737
00:24:44,070 --> 00:24:41,440
from that notion of a multiverse which

738
00:24:46,310 --> 00:24:44,080
again was posed as a hypothesis to try

739
00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:46,320
to make sense of phenomena we were

740
00:24:51,269 --> 00:24:47,760
seeing in physics writing and

741
00:24:54,390 --> 00:24:51,279
complexities we were seeing in physics

742
00:24:55,590 --> 00:24:54,400
once that was hypothesized then people

743
00:24:57,750 --> 00:24:55,600
that are familiar with the ufo

744
00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:57,760
phenomenon said wait a second maybe

745
00:25:01,269 --> 00:24:59,440
that's how they're getting here they're

746
00:25:02,870 --> 00:25:01,279
popping in from an alternate dimension

747
00:25:05,510 --> 00:25:02,880
or an alternate universe rather than

748
00:25:07,669 --> 00:25:05,520
from alpha centauri you know in our

749
00:25:09,350 --> 00:25:07,679
physical universe

750
00:25:11,430 --> 00:25:09,360
so so that's possible that that's

751
00:25:13,110 --> 00:25:11,440
happening but to your question

752
00:25:14,950 --> 00:25:13,120
it's possible that they

753
00:25:17,190 --> 00:25:14,960
exist outside the construct of space

754
00:25:19,350 --> 00:25:17,200
time altogether and in fact donald

755
00:25:21,430 --> 00:25:19,360
hoffman has said the reason why the

756
00:25:23,430 --> 00:25:21,440
fermi paradox exists in the fermi

757
00:25:24,310 --> 00:25:23,440
paradox for those who are not familiar

758
00:25:26,549 --> 00:25:24,320
says

759
00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:26,559
if the universe is as big as it is and

760
00:25:30,789 --> 00:25:28,640
is even though there's plenty of planets

761
00:25:32,549 --> 00:25:30,799
most that would not support life because

762
00:25:34,870 --> 00:25:32,559
of the size of the cosmos there should

763
00:25:37,909 --> 00:25:34,880
be plenty that should support life we

764
00:25:39,669 --> 00:25:37,919
should see still plenty of civilizations

765
00:25:41,029 --> 00:25:39,679
even if some die out or blow themselves

766
00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:41,039
up or whatever

767
00:25:44,789 --> 00:25:43,200
we should still have plenty out there

768
00:25:46,390 --> 00:25:44,799
why aren't we seeing them right that's

769
00:25:47,350 --> 00:25:46,400
that's the paradox

770
00:25:49,350 --> 00:25:47,360
um

771
00:25:50,789 --> 00:25:49,360
and what he would suggest uh hoffman is

772
00:25:53,269 --> 00:25:50,799
that it's because

773
00:25:55,750 --> 00:25:53,279
space time is our construct that

774
00:25:57,190 --> 00:25:55,760
evolution has served up for us so we

775
00:25:59,909 --> 00:25:57,200
make our way through the world it's like

776
00:26:01,669 --> 00:25:59,919
a it's a hack it's a series of shortcuts

777
00:26:04,710 --> 00:26:01,679
to keep us alive so we can reproduce and

778
00:26:07,029 --> 00:26:04,720
that's its only point its point is not

779
00:26:08,870 --> 00:26:07,039
to show us reality as it is and he would

780
00:26:11,110 --> 00:26:08,880
suggest that the

781
00:26:13,110 --> 00:26:11,120
the there's even mathematical proofs

782
00:26:14,870 --> 00:26:13,120
that demonstrate that

783
00:26:16,870 --> 00:26:14,880
our ancestors

784
00:26:18,789 --> 00:26:16,880
didn't see reality as it was they were

785
00:26:21,350 --> 00:26:18,799
the ones that saw the shortcuts like

786
00:26:23,669 --> 00:26:21,360
seeing a video game a virtual reality

787
00:26:25,110 --> 00:26:23,679
they survived because they had the best

788
00:26:27,510 --> 00:26:25,120
shortcuts if you get too much

789
00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:27,520
information you drown in it you die you

790
00:26:31,990 --> 00:26:30,000
don't reproduce so by the fact though

791
00:26:34,470 --> 00:26:32,000
you know those of us who are here now

792
00:26:36,630 --> 00:26:34,480
came from ancestors who

793
00:26:39,830 --> 00:26:36,640
lived with the shortcuts lived with the

794
00:26:41,269 --> 00:26:39,840
hack lived with the virtual reality so

795
00:26:43,750 --> 00:26:41,279
that's his point that that's our

796
00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:43,760
construct space time right and so

797
00:26:47,669 --> 00:26:45,760
space time is within consciousness

798
00:26:49,269 --> 00:26:47,679
rather than consciousness being within

799
00:26:51,590 --> 00:26:49,279
space time as materialists would tell

800
00:26:53,029 --> 00:26:51,600
you so that being the case hoffman would

801
00:26:55,350 --> 00:26:53,039
say we shouldn't be surprised that we're

802
00:26:57,750 --> 00:26:55,360
not finding aliens in our construct

803
00:27:00,230 --> 00:26:57,760
which is just an evolutionary uh kind of

804
00:27:02,390 --> 00:27:00,240
derivative or abstraction

805
00:27:05,510 --> 00:27:02,400
but he believes that if we can hack

806
00:27:07,350 --> 00:27:05,520
outside of this construct we will find

807
00:27:09,430 --> 00:27:07,360
uh a reality

808
00:27:11,510 --> 00:27:09,440
with infinite numbers of other

809
00:27:12,710 --> 00:27:11,520
intelligences so yeah absolutely that

810
00:27:14,549 --> 00:27:12,720
could happen

811
00:27:16,549 --> 00:27:14,559
not to mention there's this notion

812
00:27:19,190 --> 00:27:16,559
called the transcendent hypothesis which

813
00:27:20,710 --> 00:27:19,200
says that that and this also explains or

814
00:27:22,870 --> 00:27:20,720
is a potential answer for the fermi

815
00:27:25,190 --> 00:27:22,880
paradox is that when a civilization gets

816
00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:25,200
to a certain point of sophistication it

817
00:27:29,269 --> 00:27:27,440
actually just becomes post-biological

818
00:27:32,149 --> 00:27:29,279
and sort of you know exits space time

819
00:27:33,990 --> 00:27:32,159
altogether finds a way to do that and so

820
00:27:36,389 --> 00:27:34,000
we're actually a relatively young

821
00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:36,399
civilization compared to that and the

822
00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:38,480
reason we're not finding them just like

823
00:27:42,950 --> 00:27:40,640
we don't find other civilizations using

824
00:27:44,789 --> 00:27:42,960
radio waves because they've long since

825
00:27:46,789 --> 00:27:44,799
surpassed the need for that technology

826
00:27:48,470 --> 00:27:46,799
so same sort of idea

827
00:27:50,549 --> 00:27:48,480
now to your second question around the

828
00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:50,559
potential danger

829
00:27:54,070 --> 00:27:52,000
uh

830
00:27:55,750 --> 00:27:54,080
i would say that

831
00:27:56,710 --> 00:27:55,760
the distinction that i would draw is

832
00:27:58,470 --> 00:27:56,720
that

833
00:28:01,029 --> 00:27:58,480
the the methods you use the

834
00:28:02,870 --> 00:28:01,039
intentionality you employ really matters

835
00:28:05,029 --> 00:28:02,880
for these kind of things this will be

836
00:28:06,630 --> 00:28:05,039
daunting for some people um and

837
00:28:08,310 --> 00:28:06,640
overwhelming to others especially who

838
00:28:09,830 --> 00:28:08,320
are those who are not familiar with

839
00:28:11,269 --> 00:28:09,840
these kind of notions

840
00:28:12,710 --> 00:28:11,279
um

841
00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:12,720
but because i've been in various

842
00:28:17,029 --> 00:28:15,120
spiritual traditions before was really

843
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:17,039
heavy into this stuff and i've been to

844
00:28:20,149 --> 00:28:18,320
parts of the world where i've seen

845
00:28:22,389 --> 00:28:20,159
things happen that are supposedly not

846
00:28:23,430 --> 00:28:22,399
supposed to happen within a physicalist

847
00:28:24,950 --> 00:28:23,440
model

848
00:28:26,549 --> 00:28:24,960
and it happened to happen in places

849
00:28:28,950 --> 00:28:26,559
where there was a bit of a looser

850
00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:28,960
consensus reality around certain things

851
00:28:32,630 --> 00:28:30,640
not happening and that seems to actually

852
00:28:34,710 --> 00:28:32,640
change the likelihood that you could see

853
00:28:36,310 --> 00:28:34,720
certain things manifest

854
00:28:38,310 --> 00:28:36,320
which might also explain why the way by

855
00:28:40,310 --> 00:28:38,320
the way why some people who've had an

856
00:28:42,630 --> 00:28:40,320
anomalous experience of some kind

857
00:28:45,269 --> 00:28:42,640
keep having them because something

858
00:28:47,110 --> 00:28:45,279
some aperture opens up some switch flips

859
00:28:48,549 --> 00:28:47,120
on and from then on

860
00:28:50,070 --> 00:28:48,559
something in us knows deep in our

861
00:28:52,630 --> 00:28:50,080
subconscious that reality is more

862
00:28:54,710 --> 00:28:52,640
complex and because we're open to it we

863
00:28:55,669 --> 00:28:54,720
experience more

864
00:28:57,830 --> 00:28:55,679
um

865
00:28:59,750 --> 00:28:57,840
but because i had those experiences i i

866
00:29:01,909 --> 00:28:59,760
saw some good and some bad things happen

867
00:29:02,710 --> 00:29:01,919
right some light stuff and some dark

868
00:29:05,990 --> 00:29:02,720
stuff

869
00:29:07,909 --> 00:29:06,000
and i think that uh there are absolutely

870
00:29:10,549 --> 00:29:07,919
both entities that are benevolent and

871
00:29:13,269 --> 00:29:10,559
those that are nefarious and malevolent

872
00:29:15,669 --> 00:29:13,279
and uh it's not necessarily like this

873
00:29:18,070 --> 00:29:15,679
sort of stereotypical like evil demon

874
00:29:20,870 --> 00:29:18,080
who forever has always been evil and is

875
00:29:23,590 --> 00:29:20,880
just looking to like steal your soul

876
00:29:25,190 --> 00:29:23,600
it's more about like a uh um an

877
00:29:27,430 --> 00:29:25,200
immaturity a

878
00:29:29,110 --> 00:29:27,440
a lack of sophistication

879
00:29:31,830 --> 00:29:29,120
a kind of a trickster thing sometimes

880
00:29:33,029 --> 00:29:31,840
that just wants to play with people um

881
00:29:34,789 --> 00:29:33,039
you know you think about the batman

882
00:29:36,149 --> 00:29:34,799
movie some some people just want to see

883
00:29:38,549 --> 00:29:36,159
the world burn i think there's some

884
00:29:41,029 --> 00:29:38,559
entities like that you know um that just

885
00:29:41,909 --> 00:29:41,039
like to wreak havoc um

886
00:29:43,190 --> 00:29:41,919
uh

887
00:29:45,190 --> 00:29:43,200
i still think they fit within that

888
00:29:46,470 --> 00:29:45,200
consciousness construct ultimately and

889
00:29:49,269 --> 00:29:46,480
they have to progress through that just

890
00:29:49,990 --> 00:29:49,279
like every every other entity

891
00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:50,000
but

892
00:29:55,590 --> 00:29:54,080
i would also say though importantly um

893
00:29:58,310 --> 00:29:55,600
when you engage in certain activities

894
00:30:01,029 --> 00:29:58,320
like ce5 or heist the whole point is to

895
00:30:03,029 --> 00:30:01,039
go in with a positive intentionality to

896
00:30:04,549 --> 00:30:03,039
have worked through some of your own um

897
00:30:08,149 --> 00:30:04,559
issues that you're not coming in with a

898
00:30:10,549 --> 00:30:08,159
bunch of negative residual energy

899
00:30:13,430 --> 00:30:10,559
because there's a reflective nature to

900
00:30:15,830 --> 00:30:13,440
this phenomenon so much of it right

901
00:30:17,669 --> 00:30:15,840
and and because of that

902
00:30:19,110 --> 00:30:17,679
it's almost like you are sending an

903
00:30:21,269 --> 00:30:19,120
email

904
00:30:22,950 --> 00:30:21,279
and without realizing especially if you

905
00:30:23,669 --> 00:30:22,960
don't have a lot of self-awareness built

906
00:30:28,710 --> 00:30:23,679
in

907
00:30:30,070 --> 00:30:28,720
and then the person the other side is

908
00:30:31,110 --> 00:30:30,080
going to respond to that because they're

909
00:30:32,389 --> 00:30:31,120
like oh

910
00:30:33,750 --> 00:30:32,399
you're saying this well i'm going you

911
00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:33,760
know in the means there's a reflective

912
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:35,520
nature and even though it's kind of a

913
00:30:39,669 --> 00:30:37,919
crude analogy i'm saying that our energy

914
00:30:41,830 --> 00:30:39,679
does seem to prime these experiences

915
00:30:43,830 --> 00:30:41,840
somehow so it's really important that

916
00:30:46,230 --> 00:30:43,840
you've done that preparatory work so

917
00:30:48,470 --> 00:30:46,240
that you are sending a signal you're

918
00:30:50,149 --> 00:30:48,480
priming the uh the package that you're

919
00:30:51,750 --> 00:30:50,159
sending across you know

920
00:30:54,149 --> 00:30:51,760
interdimensionally or whatever to say

921
00:30:55,269 --> 00:30:54,159
this is the kind of encounter that this

922
00:30:58,149 --> 00:30:55,279
is going to be

923
00:31:01,110 --> 00:30:58,159
and i think that the data suggests that

924
00:31:02,870 --> 00:31:01,120
that that works that tends to work that

925
00:31:04,710 --> 00:31:02,880
when you again not wishful thinking but

926
00:31:06,630 --> 00:31:04,720
when you look at the data for heist and

927
00:31:08,789 --> 00:31:06,640
c5 even stuff that was done in south

928
00:31:10,950 --> 00:31:08,799
america well before steven greer was

929
00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:10,960
doing it

930
00:31:14,389 --> 00:31:13,120
the vast majority of the encounters end

931
00:31:16,230 --> 00:31:14,399
up being positive you know that's just

932
00:31:17,909 --> 00:31:16,240
what the data says so

933
00:31:19,669 --> 00:31:17,919
when some people might come out and say

934
00:31:21,190 --> 00:31:19,679
well you know you're just guessing you

935
00:31:23,110 --> 00:31:21,200
don't know and i'd say well i think

936
00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:23,120
there is data and you have to you have

937
00:31:28,149 --> 00:31:25,440
to pay attention to it um now do some

938
00:31:30,070 --> 00:31:28,159
people have negative experiences yes

939
00:31:32,870 --> 00:31:30,080
is going to skinwalker rants potentially

940
00:31:33,830 --> 00:31:32,880
different than going on a ce5

941
00:31:38,389 --> 00:31:33,840
you know

942
00:31:41,590 --> 00:31:38,399
think that that you need to make these

943
00:31:43,830 --> 00:31:41,600
distinctions um recognize that there are

944
00:31:45,669 --> 00:31:43,840
there's a plethora and a spectrum of

945
00:31:47,990 --> 00:31:45,679
entities just like there is with human

946
00:31:49,029 --> 00:31:48,000
beings you know like we have little kids

947
00:31:50,710 --> 00:31:49,039
we don't say

948
00:31:52,549 --> 00:31:50,720
go to any house you want just walk in

949
00:31:55,269 --> 00:31:52,559
it's fine everybody's safe we don't say

950
00:31:57,190 --> 00:31:55,279
that right we we we have some

951
00:31:58,470 --> 00:31:57,200
preparation we do some checking we get

952
00:32:00,470 --> 00:31:58,480
to know people

953
00:32:01,830 --> 00:32:00,480
i'm saying that the same applies here as

954
00:32:03,350 --> 00:32:01,840
well

955
00:32:04,870 --> 00:32:03,360
that's amazing i really appreciate your

956
00:32:07,029 --> 00:32:04,880
analogies and your breakdown of things

957
00:32:09,269 --> 00:32:07,039
because it does help it make sense to

958
00:32:11,430 --> 00:32:09,279
people like myself that are

959
00:32:13,350 --> 00:32:11,440
not quite as

960
00:32:14,549 --> 00:32:13,360
aware of some of those talking points

961
00:32:16,149 --> 00:32:14,559
and i think that's a great thing that

962
00:32:17,590 --> 00:32:16,159
you've done in your podcast on the point

963
00:32:18,870 --> 00:32:17,600
of convergence

964
00:32:20,870 --> 00:32:18,880
and but one thing that i have wanted to

965
00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:20,880
talk about is you sort of started a

966
00:32:24,389 --> 00:32:23,120
second show within the show liminal

967
00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:24,399
frames

968
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:26,000
um

969
00:32:30,230 --> 00:32:28,559
and i wanted not so much wanted to know

970
00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:30,240
about the show but more about your

971
00:32:35,029 --> 00:32:32,880
co-host nathan a good friend of mine as

972
00:32:36,630 --> 00:32:35,039
well and so tell me about nathan what

973
00:32:39,190 --> 00:32:36,640
was it that kind of drew you two

974
00:32:40,630 --> 00:32:39,200
together to do this second show

975
00:32:42,789 --> 00:32:40,640
right well that one definitely feels

976
00:32:45,750 --> 00:32:42,799
like a a synchronistic kind of

977
00:32:47,110 --> 00:32:45,760
orchestration and which by the way

978
00:32:49,590 --> 00:32:47,120
i would say again people who get

979
00:32:51,909 --> 00:32:49,600
involved in this often find

980
00:32:53,269 --> 00:32:51,919
that they start having this uncanny

981
00:32:55,669 --> 00:32:53,279
feeling that

982
00:32:57,190 --> 00:32:55,679
strings are being pulled

983
00:32:58,630 --> 00:32:57,200
some people see that as a negative thing

984
00:33:01,029 --> 00:32:58,640
others as a positive in my case it's

985
00:33:02,549 --> 00:33:01,039
been a positive experience

986
00:33:04,230 --> 00:33:02,559
where things happen that you get

987
00:33:05,509 --> 00:33:04,240
introduced to people connections that

988
00:33:06,389 --> 00:33:05,519
just seem

989
00:33:08,389 --> 00:33:06,399
um

990
00:33:11,029 --> 00:33:08,399
surprising based on chance you know it

991
00:33:13,029 --> 00:33:11,039
just seems unlikely uh so the first

992
00:33:14,789 --> 00:33:13,039
thing i would say is that

993
00:33:16,549 --> 00:33:14,799
nathan and i just happen to live in the

994
00:33:18,870 --> 00:33:16,559
same town right which is crazy when you

995
00:33:20,950 --> 00:33:18,880
think about ufo twitter and here i am

996
00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:20,960
talking to you across the pond right

997
00:33:24,310 --> 00:33:21,840
um

998
00:33:27,269 --> 00:33:24,320
and we have people all over the world so

999
00:33:28,789 --> 00:33:27,279
to to you know have the uncanny

1000
00:33:31,350 --> 00:33:28,799
circumstance where we just happen to be

1001
00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:31,360
in the same city is pretty amazing

1002
00:33:35,590 --> 00:33:33,120
and we were both deeply into the ufo

1003
00:33:37,509 --> 00:33:35,600
phenomena and it was only uh later that

1004
00:33:39,430 --> 00:33:37,519
i realized wait a second that this guy

1005
00:33:40,870 --> 00:33:39,440
you know this guy is nearby because uh

1006
00:33:41,590 --> 00:33:40,880
he's in the blue ridge mountains like i

1007
00:33:43,430 --> 00:33:41,600
am

1008
00:33:46,470 --> 00:33:43,440
um so he reached out to me originally

1009
00:33:48,149 --> 00:33:46,480
and said uh hey love your show you know

1010
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:48,159
i'm i'm in the area too maybe we get

1011
00:33:52,070 --> 00:33:50,640
together for coffee sometime

1012
00:33:53,669 --> 00:33:52,080
and then at the time you know kind of

1013
00:33:55,990 --> 00:33:53,679
being introverted i didn't i don't think

1014
00:33:58,389 --> 00:33:56,000
i jumped actually at it um

1015
00:34:01,029 --> 00:33:58,399
but then he invited me on to calling all

1016
00:34:03,350 --> 00:34:01,039
beings he and dj invited me on to their

1017
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:03,360
show calling all beings right

1018
00:34:06,230 --> 00:34:04,080
so

1019
00:34:07,909 --> 00:34:06,240
they did an interview with me and the

1020
00:34:10,310 --> 00:34:07,919
nature of the questions that nathan

1021
00:34:12,310 --> 00:34:10,320
asked uh told me that he was thinking

1022
00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:12,320
about some of the same things i was and

1023
00:34:16,950 --> 00:34:14,320
we even had a similar history in terms

1024
00:34:19,190 --> 00:34:16,960
of uh biblical studies and he did a

1025
00:34:20,629 --> 00:34:19,200
divinity degree and so

1026
00:34:22,869 --> 00:34:20,639
we have been thinking about

1027
00:34:26,950 --> 00:34:22,879
consciousness and spirituality prior to

1028
00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:26,960
this um this ufo stuff uh so

1029
00:34:30,149 --> 00:34:28,960
after that you know

1030
00:34:31,669 --> 00:34:30,159
again putting two and two together

1031
00:34:33,349 --> 00:34:31,679
realizing oh yeah this guy is the one

1032
00:34:35,109 --> 00:34:33,359
that i seem to have stuff in common with

1033
00:34:37,909 --> 00:34:35,119
and we're in the same town we got

1034
00:34:39,430 --> 00:34:37,919
together for coffee and

1035
00:34:41,430 --> 00:34:39,440
and then i started

1036
00:34:44,389 --> 00:34:41,440
thinking you know there are some topics

1037
00:34:46,310 --> 00:34:44,399
i'd like to bridge that maybe are not

1038
00:34:47,109 --> 00:34:46,320
point of convergence material you know i

1039
00:34:58,390 --> 00:34:47,119
i

1040
00:35:01,270 --> 00:34:58,400
phenomenon um but there there are larger

1041
00:35:02,790 --> 00:35:01,280
topics uh that i want to discuss as well

1042
00:35:04,230 --> 00:35:02,800
and also there's something about like

1043
00:35:07,829 --> 00:35:04,240
what we're doing right now like just on

1044
00:35:09,510 --> 00:35:07,839
the fly uh conversational that it's it's

1045
00:35:10,550 --> 00:35:09,520
fun and it's

1046
00:35:12,310 --> 00:35:10,560
always

1047
00:35:14,790 --> 00:35:12,320
compelling how it goes in directions you

1048
00:35:17,109 --> 00:35:14,800
couldn't have imagined beforehand and

1049
00:35:18,630 --> 00:35:17,119
the second you add you know sort of like

1050
00:35:20,630 --> 00:35:18,640
the biblical passage where two or more

1051
00:35:22,550 --> 00:35:20,640
are gathered there's something about the

1052
00:35:24,470 --> 00:35:22,560
the energetic output when you have more

1053
00:35:27,190 --> 00:35:24,480
than one person uh ends up being more

1054
00:35:28,710 --> 00:35:27,200
than the sum of its parts kind of thing

1055
00:35:30,950 --> 00:35:28,720
so we got together and we said hey what

1056
00:35:33,670 --> 00:35:30,960
do you think about you know doing a show

1057
00:35:35,829 --> 00:35:33,680
around that's more conversational nature

1058
00:35:37,750 --> 00:35:35,839
uh and then we can just we can discuss

1059
00:35:38,550 --> 00:35:37,760
all aspects of this and bring in some of

1060
00:35:41,190 --> 00:35:38,560
our

1061
00:35:42,710 --> 00:35:41,200
uh history with with religious studies

1062
00:35:44,470 --> 00:35:42,720
and whatnot as well which plays into

1063
00:35:45,990 --> 00:35:44,480
this because obviously one of the big

1064
00:35:47,910 --> 00:35:46,000
questions is

1065
00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:47,920
were the very you know monotheistic

1066
00:35:52,790 --> 00:35:50,400
religions of our history inspired by

1067
00:35:54,470 --> 00:35:52,800
encounters with the same entities that

1068
00:35:56,230 --> 00:35:54,480
we're encountering now and just calling

1069
00:35:59,349 --> 00:35:56,240
them grey aliens or

1070
00:36:01,109 --> 00:35:59,359
beings from andromeda so uh these are

1071
00:36:03,270 --> 00:36:01,119
all compelling and related questions and

1072
00:36:05,430 --> 00:36:03,280
that's how that how that started

1073
00:36:07,510 --> 00:36:05,440
it's great and i'm sure

1074
00:36:08,870 --> 00:36:07,520
nathan would probably agree on most of

1075
00:36:13,589 --> 00:36:08,880
what you said but

1076
00:36:16,630 --> 00:36:14,870
what's up guys

1077
00:36:17,750 --> 00:36:16,640
because the devil

1078
00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:17,760
here i am

1079
00:36:23,670 --> 00:36:20,880
it's a it's an engineered synchronicity

1080
00:36:25,589 --> 00:36:23,680
yeah i had to do it you know i had to do

1081
00:36:27,270 --> 00:36:25,599
it because you guys do you

1082
00:36:29,190 --> 00:36:27,280
this like i said the

1083
00:36:30,550 --> 00:36:29,200
liminal frames is

1084
00:36:33,109 --> 00:36:30,560
something different from from the

1085
00:36:35,109 --> 00:36:33,119
original podcast that darren started so

1086
00:36:36,790 --> 00:36:35,119
yeah nathan you know give us your point

1087
00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:36,800
of view you know i mean i guess it's the

1088
00:36:40,550 --> 00:36:38,400
same as darren's but

1089
00:36:42,390 --> 00:36:40,560
you know give us it anyway

1090
00:36:44,790 --> 00:36:42,400
sure no there's a lot of commonality

1091
00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:44,800
there uh you know

1092
00:36:48,950 --> 00:36:46,800
people ask me what it's like kind of

1093
00:36:51,270 --> 00:36:48,960
talking with darren and i say well we we

1094
00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:51,280
meet at a place and we basically close

1095
00:36:55,430 --> 00:36:53,440
it down that's how we do it we meet at a

1096
00:36:57,510 --> 00:36:55,440
place and we then later close it down

1097
00:36:58,950 --> 00:36:57,520
and they kick us out uh so

1098
00:37:01,190 --> 00:36:58,960
you know hours go by because our

1099
00:37:03,430 --> 00:37:01,200
conversations are so easy which is not

1100
00:37:05,829 --> 00:37:03,440
to say that we agree on everything we

1101
00:37:08,310 --> 00:37:05,839
certainly don't but uh it's just things

1102
00:37:10,310 --> 00:37:08,320
just flow and it's nice to be in that

1103
00:37:12,390 --> 00:37:10,320
flow state with somebody that is into

1104
00:37:13,829 --> 00:37:12,400
the same topic that you're in

1105
00:37:15,670 --> 00:37:13,839
as he pointed out

1106
00:37:17,589 --> 00:37:15,680
coincidentally just in the same city i

1107
00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:17,599
mean how many people are that fortunate

1108
00:37:21,030 --> 00:37:19,440
to have someone they can meet in person

1109
00:37:23,109 --> 00:37:21,040
and have a coffee or a beer and just

1110
00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:23,119
kind of get into it you know so

1111
00:37:25,910 --> 00:37:24,640
um

1112
00:37:28,069 --> 00:37:25,920
you know i consider myself very

1113
00:37:30,950 --> 00:37:28,079
fortunate to have crossed paths with

1114
00:37:33,190 --> 00:37:30,960
darren and uh it certainly enriched

1115
00:37:35,349 --> 00:37:33,200
you know my understanding of what's

1116
00:37:37,190 --> 00:37:35,359
what's going on with this uh it's it's

1117
00:37:40,230 --> 00:37:37,200
definitely raised new questions and

1118
00:37:41,270 --> 00:37:40,240
opened up new avenues of inquiry for me

1119
00:37:42,710 --> 00:37:41,280
um

1120
00:37:44,069 --> 00:37:42,720
you know something that i've been

1121
00:37:46,150 --> 00:37:44,079
listening along to the show and

1122
00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:46,160
something that came to my mind

1123
00:37:49,190 --> 00:37:47,760
as you guys have been talking and that's

1124
00:37:51,910 --> 00:37:49,200
just this nature

1125
00:37:54,470 --> 00:37:51,920
of of the absurd and and you know dare

1126
00:37:57,510 --> 00:37:54,480
and i we we talk about this uh sometimes

1127
00:37:59,589 --> 00:37:57,520
that that things that are absurd

1128
00:38:02,630 --> 00:37:59,599
you know sort of shake you out of

1129
00:38:04,550 --> 00:38:02,640
whatever routine you happen to be in

1130
00:38:07,349 --> 00:38:04,560
and our human history is sort of

1131
00:38:09,990 --> 00:38:07,359
punctuated with absurd moments which

1132
00:38:11,829 --> 00:38:10,000
then lead and catalyze

1133
00:38:14,390 --> 00:38:11,839
you know change that happens in in the

1134
00:38:17,829 --> 00:38:14,400
society change that might happen in our

1135
00:38:19,750 --> 00:38:17,839
technology and so you know i think

1136
00:38:22,230 --> 00:38:19,760
obviously this is this is speculation

1137
00:38:24,790 --> 00:38:22,240
but there's some element perhaps

1138
00:38:27,030 --> 00:38:24,800
that this absurdity of the phenomena

1139
00:38:30,069 --> 00:38:27,040
that it plays with our

1140
00:38:31,270 --> 00:38:30,079
our ability to understand our ability to

1141
00:38:33,109 --> 00:38:31,280
to grow

1142
00:38:34,950 --> 00:38:33,119
both with what we are learning and the

1143
00:38:37,030 --> 00:38:34,960
way we are interacting and behaving with

1144
00:38:38,150 --> 00:38:37,040
one another it's kind of continually

1145
00:38:40,150 --> 00:38:38,160
pushing us

1146
00:38:42,550 --> 00:38:40,160
in interesting directions

1147
00:38:46,630 --> 00:38:42,560
that maybe only become apparent in

1148
00:38:49,670 --> 00:38:46,640
hindsight not in that moment

1149
00:38:50,950 --> 00:38:49,680
awesome yeah that's great man um

1150
00:38:52,630 --> 00:38:50,960
you mentioned the trickster element

1151
00:38:54,390 --> 00:38:52,640
there and obviously

1152
00:38:57,589 --> 00:38:54,400
that features heavily when people talk

1153
00:38:59,430 --> 00:38:57,599
about skinwalker ranch tricksters and

1154
00:39:00,710 --> 00:38:59,440
hitchhiker effect and all those kind of

1155
00:39:02,069 --> 00:39:00,720
things that's the subject i really

1156
00:39:04,550 --> 00:39:02,079
wanted to jump on

1157
00:39:07,030 --> 00:39:04,560
on about right now so darren if if we go

1158
00:39:09,510 --> 00:39:07,040
to you first you know what's your views

1159
00:39:11,589 --> 00:39:09,520
thoughts hypotheses or anything

1160
00:39:15,430 --> 00:39:11,599
surrounding skinwalker ranch but not

1161
00:39:17,990 --> 00:39:15,440
only now but historically as well

1162
00:39:19,589 --> 00:39:18,000
right i mean there are many hypotheses

1163
00:39:21,829 --> 00:39:19,599
in terms of you know what it is whether

1164
00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:21,839
it's some sort of uh some people see it

1165
00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:23,760
as like kind of spiritual curse right

1166
00:39:28,630 --> 00:39:26,880
and you have the whole notion of um

1167
00:39:30,310 --> 00:39:28,640
uh you know one indian tribe that kind

1168
00:39:32,470 --> 00:39:30,320
of cursed the land because another one

1169
00:39:33,990 --> 00:39:32,480
was coming in kind of thing and and to

1170
00:39:35,349 --> 00:39:34,000
what degree is that

1171
00:39:36,870 --> 00:39:35,359
uh what's really going on that's where

1172
00:39:38,550 --> 00:39:36,880
the name skinwalker comes from right

1173
00:39:41,030 --> 00:39:38,560
this this being that was part of their

1174
00:39:42,870 --> 00:39:41,040
their lore um you have other notions

1175
00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:42,880
that what we really have is an ancient

1176
00:39:47,349 --> 00:39:45,760
technology that was anciently seated but

1177
00:39:49,109 --> 00:39:47,359
is still there today right and there's

1178
00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:49,119
this there's this notion of maybe

1179
00:39:51,270 --> 00:39:49,920
there's

1180
00:39:52,710 --> 00:39:51,280
uh they seem to in some of their

1181
00:39:54,550 --> 00:39:52,720
experiments find things that are you

1182
00:39:56,069 --> 00:39:54,560
know certain point up in the sky so it's

1183
00:39:56,950 --> 00:39:56,079
not this ranch itself it's somewhere

1184
00:39:58,230 --> 00:39:56,960
above

1185
00:40:00,150 --> 00:39:58,240
and there's been other evidence speaking

1186
00:40:01,030 --> 00:40:00,160
of that earlier question elena asked

1187
00:40:02,710 --> 00:40:01,040
about

1188
00:40:05,190 --> 00:40:02,720
magnetic anomalies you know there's

1189
00:40:07,109 --> 00:40:05,200
something below the earth that seems

1190
00:40:09,430 --> 00:40:07,119
anomalous there as well so again are

1191
00:40:11,910 --> 00:40:09,440
those just

1192
00:40:13,750 --> 00:40:11,920
post pointing to something else or are

1193
00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:13,760
they you know the root cause that's

1194
00:40:17,910 --> 00:40:16,560
worth pursuing either way

1195
00:40:19,910 --> 00:40:17,920
in terms of the hitchhiker effect i

1196
00:40:22,630 --> 00:40:19,920
would say that what's interesting is

1197
00:40:25,109 --> 00:40:22,640
that again to me suggests that

1198
00:40:27,270 --> 00:40:25,119
this is another element where space time

1199
00:40:30,230 --> 00:40:27,280
is irrelevant that uh that it's hacking

1200
00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:30,240
the construct altogether um

1201
00:40:33,030 --> 00:40:31,440
so i would say

1202
00:40:34,550 --> 00:40:33,040
personally i've experienced the

1203
00:40:37,430 --> 00:40:34,560
hitchhiker effect

1204
00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:37,440
since my experience at monroe

1205
00:40:44,630 --> 00:40:42,870
i was around people who had a lot of

1206
00:40:46,470 --> 00:40:44,640
experiences right people like chris

1207
00:40:49,030 --> 00:40:46,480
bledsoe

1208
00:40:50,950 --> 00:40:49,040
i've also been to his house personally

1209
00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:50,960
and had experiences there

1210
00:40:54,309 --> 00:40:53,040
and then since then i've had some of my

1211
00:40:57,990 --> 00:40:54,319
own experiences

1212
00:41:00,390 --> 00:40:58,000
and um and uh people who know me

1213
00:41:01,750 --> 00:41:00,400
uh have out of the blue got in touch

1214
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:01,760
with me and said you're not going to

1215
00:41:06,550 --> 00:41:05,040
believe this but i saw six ufos

1216
00:41:08,630 --> 00:41:06,560
up on the blue ridge parkway three

1217
00:41:10,309 --> 00:41:08,640
nights ago

1218
00:41:12,069 --> 00:41:10,319
and you have so when you think about it

1219
00:41:13,270 --> 00:41:12,079
you have a similar kind of equation

1220
00:41:15,510 --> 00:41:13,280
there you have

1221
00:41:17,109 --> 00:41:15,520
uh me seemingly picking something up you

1222
00:41:19,349 --> 00:41:17,119
could use the analogy of like a viral

1223
00:41:21,190 --> 00:41:19,359
kind of thing right something i catch

1224
00:41:23,430 --> 00:41:21,200
something from someone that already was

1225
00:41:25,990 --> 00:41:23,440
having uh amazing experiences with a

1226
00:41:28,470 --> 00:41:26,000
phenomenon and then somehow i also pass

1227
00:41:30,309 --> 00:41:28,480
it off but it's not passed off by like

1228
00:41:32,390 --> 00:41:30,319
like covet you walk in a supermarket you

1229
00:41:34,550 --> 00:41:32,400
get too close to someone who sneezes it

1230
00:41:35,990 --> 00:41:34,560
can actually just be the fact that you

1231
00:41:38,150 --> 00:41:36,000
have some sort of consciousness

1232
00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:38,160
connection even if you haven't seen or

1233
00:41:42,630 --> 00:41:40,560
talked to that person in weeks or months

1234
00:41:45,270 --> 00:41:42,640
uh which is fascinating and suggests

1235
00:41:47,910 --> 00:41:45,280
again that the way the the the the

1236
00:41:50,470 --> 00:41:47,920
traffic for these others this

1237
00:41:53,030 --> 00:41:50,480
intelligence is not space-time oriented

1238
00:41:55,109 --> 00:41:53,040
at all it's not spatial temporal at all

1239
00:41:55,910 --> 00:41:55,119
which again is a really intriguing data

1240
00:41:57,510 --> 00:41:55,920
point

1241
00:41:58,870 --> 00:41:57,520
that that i think we should pursue when

1242
00:42:00,230 --> 00:41:58,880
trying to figure out what what this all

1243
00:42:01,990 --> 00:42:00,240
means

1244
00:42:03,589 --> 00:42:02,000
and nathan i'll come to you in a second

1245
00:42:06,309 --> 00:42:03,599
but darren you mentioned there about

1246
00:42:08,470 --> 00:42:06,319
monroe and and chris bledsoe so if we

1247
00:42:10,470 --> 00:42:08,480
could just continue with that and these

1248
00:42:11,829 --> 00:42:10,480
experiences if you could you expand on

1249
00:42:14,309 --> 00:42:11,839
that a little bit

1250
00:42:15,910 --> 00:42:14,319
about monroe and and

1251
00:42:17,750 --> 00:42:15,920
the reason why you were with these these

1252
00:42:19,829 --> 00:42:17,760
people in these gatherings and i'll just

1253
00:42:21,510 --> 00:42:19,839
quickly say sorry before guys i'm seeing

1254
00:42:23,829 --> 00:42:21,520
your questions and i'm noting them for

1255
00:42:24,710 --> 00:42:23,839
later but while we're just in this uh

1256
00:42:26,710 --> 00:42:24,720
you know

1257
00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:26,720
let's flow we're just going to continue

1258
00:42:30,550 --> 00:42:29,200
for now so i will get to them but sorry

1259
00:42:31,990 --> 00:42:30,560
darren yeah

1260
00:42:34,630 --> 00:42:32,000
if you still remember the question if

1261
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:34,640
you could go ahead thank you

1262
00:42:39,109 --> 00:42:37,280
yeah so uh speaking of you know

1263
00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:39,119
synchronicity and the hitchhiker effect

1264
00:42:42,710 --> 00:42:40,480
i think it's all connected right those

1265
00:42:44,470 --> 00:42:42,720
are not separate uh issues or somehow

1266
00:42:46,790 --> 00:42:44,480
part of something

1267
00:42:48,069 --> 00:42:46,800
again that's embedded in consciousness

1268
00:42:49,829 --> 00:42:48,079
um but

1269
00:42:51,510 --> 00:42:49,839
uh you know there were some people who

1270
00:42:53,190 --> 00:42:51,520
had experiences with chris bled so

1271
00:42:54,470 --> 00:42:53,200
personally

1272
00:42:55,910 --> 00:42:54,480
and then began to have some of their own

1273
00:42:58,950 --> 00:42:55,920
experiences

1274
00:43:00,950 --> 00:42:58,960
and and and then said again they were

1275
00:43:02,550 --> 00:43:00,960
changed by it like i mentioned earlier

1276
00:43:03,670 --> 00:43:02,560
their consciousness was changed their

1277
00:43:06,309 --> 00:43:03,680
sense of

1278
00:43:08,870 --> 00:43:06,319
this is so dramatic and so uh

1279
00:43:11,030 --> 00:43:08,880
life-changing uh perspective altering

1280
00:43:12,710 --> 00:43:11,040
that i feel like like behoove to do

1281
00:43:14,870 --> 00:43:12,720
something i'm not i'm not supposed to

1282
00:43:17,349 --> 00:43:14,880
just passively experience this but i'm

1283
00:43:19,589 --> 00:43:17,359
supposed to do something with this

1284
00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:19,599
a sense of calling or vocation dawns on

1285
00:43:22,150 --> 00:43:20,640
a person

1286
00:43:24,550 --> 00:43:22,160
so uh

1287
00:43:27,109 --> 00:43:24,560
this person actually began to have the

1288
00:43:30,069 --> 00:43:27,119
the notion of monroe in their mind they

1289
00:43:32,470 --> 00:43:30,079
this idea of drawing together a group of

1290
00:43:33,990 --> 00:43:32,480
experiencers or what joseph burks would

1291
00:43:36,150 --> 00:43:34,000
call prime experiencers or prime

1292
00:43:38,390 --> 00:43:36,160
contactees people who have

1293
00:43:41,510 --> 00:43:38,400
an unusually high number of uh

1294
00:43:43,510 --> 00:43:41,520
experiences and really dramatic ones

1295
00:43:44,950 --> 00:43:43,520
often going back to childhood

1296
00:43:46,069 --> 00:43:44,960
which chris bledsoe would definitely fit

1297
00:43:47,589 --> 00:43:46,079
that bill

1298
00:43:49,829 --> 00:43:47,599
a combination of those kind of people

1299
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:49,839
and researchers and even people

1300
00:43:52,950 --> 00:43:51,680
from government military backgrounds who

1301
00:43:54,950 --> 00:43:52,960
also

1302
00:43:57,750 --> 00:43:54,960
dealt with some elements of the ufo

1303
00:43:59,670 --> 00:43:57,760
phenomenon in their careers

1304
00:44:01,910 --> 00:43:59,680
trying to draw that all together as well

1305
00:44:03,349 --> 00:44:01,920
as like people who specialize in psy

1306
00:44:05,829 --> 00:44:03,359
phenomena that i mentioned earlier

1307
00:44:08,550 --> 00:44:05,839
knowing that that's connected as well

1308
00:44:10,710 --> 00:44:08,560
and and preferably do it at a place

1309
00:44:12,710 --> 00:44:10,720
where speaking of what i said earlier

1310
00:44:13,990 --> 00:44:12,720
about sending the email and what are you

1311
00:44:16,550 --> 00:44:14,000
priming it with

1312
00:44:19,190 --> 00:44:16,560
if you do it at a place where already

1313
00:44:21,750 --> 00:44:19,200
it's it has this rich history of

1314
00:44:23,589 --> 00:44:21,760
exploring consciousness then that too

1315
00:44:25,510 --> 00:44:23,599
primes the experience with something

1316
00:44:26,470 --> 00:44:25,520
right people talk about going into holy

1317
00:44:27,990 --> 00:44:26,480
sites

1318
00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:28,000
right that have been around for hundreds

1319
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:29,520
of thousands of years and feeling

1320
00:44:33,190 --> 00:44:30,960
something i think that's part of that

1321
00:44:35,430 --> 00:44:33,200
it's it's been like

1322
00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:35,440
you know invested into that that area

1323
00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:37,200
and you can feel it somehow and i think

1324
00:44:40,870 --> 00:44:39,520
if we had the right scientific devices

1325
00:44:41,829 --> 00:44:40,880
we could probably measure it at some

1326
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:41,839
point

1327
00:44:45,030 --> 00:44:43,280
the same way that some people can see an

1328
00:44:45,990 --> 00:44:45,040
aura around people

1329
00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:46,000
so

1330
00:44:49,109 --> 00:44:47,839
he then looked at the monroe institute

1331
00:44:51,510 --> 00:44:49,119
thought this was the perfect place

1332
00:44:53,829 --> 00:44:51,520
they've been pioneering doing pioneering

1333
00:44:55,750 --> 00:44:53,839
research on consciousness since the 60s

1334
00:44:57,270 --> 00:44:55,760
and 70s um

1335
00:44:58,470 --> 00:44:57,280
let's try and do it there that was a bit

1336
00:45:00,150 --> 00:44:58,480
of a challenge because they don't

1337
00:45:01,829 --> 00:45:00,160
usually host private events and this was

1338
00:45:03,910 --> 00:45:01,839
going to be a private event where we

1339
00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:03,920
would design the uh you know the

1340
00:45:08,470 --> 00:45:05,920
schedule but we wanted to do it there

1341
00:45:11,270 --> 00:45:08,480
eventually you know this person

1342
00:45:13,270 --> 00:45:11,280
persevered and got the board to agree

1343
00:45:15,430 --> 00:45:13,280
so then we went there with this group of

1344
00:45:16,309 --> 00:45:15,440
people that were kind of hand-picked uh

1345
00:45:21,109 --> 00:45:16,319
to

1346
00:45:23,349 --> 00:45:21,119
work uh which involved heist as well

1347
00:45:25,109 --> 00:45:23,359
human initiated contact but also

1348
00:45:27,349 --> 00:45:25,119
exploring sci phenomena astral

1349
00:45:29,349 --> 00:45:27,359
projection and all the rest

1350
00:45:30,230 --> 00:45:29,359
amazing and

1351
00:45:33,430 --> 00:45:30,240
again

1352
00:45:35,270 --> 00:45:33,440
you did mention sightings um

1353
00:45:36,950 --> 00:45:35,280
both around that time and and since

1354
00:45:38,630 --> 00:45:36,960
visiting chris bledsoe are you able to

1355
00:45:39,829 --> 00:45:38,640
just expand on that a little bit because

1356
00:45:41,589 --> 00:45:39,839
i think i've noticed a few comments

1357
00:45:42,630 --> 00:45:41,599
people are really interested in in what

1358
00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:42,640
you saw

1359
00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:44,400
right

1360
00:45:49,270 --> 00:45:46,960
yeah i mean one of the um

1361
00:45:50,950 --> 00:45:49,280
the most common data points and again

1362
00:45:52,630 --> 00:45:50,960
this is sometimes i recognize this is

1363
00:45:54,550 --> 00:45:52,640
frustrating for some of the nuts and

1364
00:45:56,550 --> 00:45:54,560
bolts people who kind of want you know

1365
00:45:58,150 --> 00:45:56,560
like black triangles or

1366
00:46:00,630 --> 00:45:58,160
classics koster or whatever you know or

1367
00:46:03,510 --> 00:46:00,640
a tic tac but often these things uh

1368
00:46:05,190 --> 00:46:03,520
manifest as what we call orbs right

1369
00:46:07,190 --> 00:46:05,200
there's been some some controversy

1370
00:46:08,550 --> 00:46:07,200
recently even around lufon

1371
00:46:10,470 --> 00:46:08,560
deciding whether or not they'll even

1372
00:46:13,030 --> 00:46:10,480
investigate orbs i think that's the

1373
00:46:15,589 --> 00:46:13,040
wrong decision i think that

1374
00:46:16,870 --> 00:46:15,599
arbitrarily saying orbs are one thing

1375
00:46:19,109 --> 00:46:16,880
hard you know

1376
00:46:20,230 --> 00:46:19,119
metal craft or another is is misses the

1377
00:46:21,109 --> 00:46:20,240
point and

1378
00:46:23,030 --> 00:46:21,119
um

1379
00:46:24,390 --> 00:46:23,040
i i know people have had experiences

1380
00:46:26,230 --> 00:46:24,400
where they've seen it shape-shift

1381
00:46:27,270 --> 00:46:26,240
between the two right where it goes from

1382
00:46:29,829 --> 00:46:27,280
something that looks like a ball of

1383
00:46:31,270 --> 00:46:29,839
light or it goes from nothing to

1384
00:46:32,950 --> 00:46:31,280
materializing into a ball of light and

1385
00:46:34,230 --> 00:46:32,960
then turning into a full-on physical

1386
00:46:35,190 --> 00:46:34,240
craft

1387
00:46:38,069 --> 00:46:35,200
and then

1388
00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:38,079
dematerializing again so somehow again

1389
00:46:43,270 --> 00:46:41,040
our space-time notions are insufficient

1390
00:46:45,109 --> 00:46:43,280
at the very least and so making these

1391
00:46:46,790 --> 00:46:45,119
arbitrary decisions about what we'll

1392
00:46:49,109 --> 00:46:46,800
investigate based on our space-time

1393
00:46:50,150 --> 00:46:49,119
assumptions is missing the point

1394
00:46:53,190 --> 00:46:50,160
um

1395
00:46:55,190 --> 00:46:53,200
but in terms of what i've seen so

1396
00:46:56,790 --> 00:46:55,200
at monroe i've talked about this in a

1397
00:46:58,550 --> 00:46:56,800
couple other places too

1398
00:47:00,390 --> 00:46:58,560
we saw a variety of things and which was

1399
00:47:03,190 --> 00:47:00,400
really interesting to me because

1400
00:47:04,550 --> 00:47:03,200
um you know you might go in with a

1401
00:47:05,990 --> 00:47:04,560
preconception about what you're going to

1402
00:47:07,910 --> 00:47:06,000
see

1403
00:47:10,069 --> 00:47:07,920
it can be everything from

1404
00:47:11,829 --> 00:47:10,079
a flash in the sky that just clearly

1405
00:47:14,390 --> 00:47:11,839
doesn't fit any other

1406
00:47:15,670 --> 00:47:14,400
prosaic description it can be sometimes

1407
00:47:17,270 --> 00:47:15,680
something that's following a certain

1408
00:47:18,550 --> 00:47:17,280
trajectory down the sky but it's

1409
00:47:19,349 --> 00:47:18,560
flashing boom

1410
00:47:24,390 --> 00:47:19,359
boom

1411
00:47:26,150 --> 00:47:24,400
and then you could have something that

1412
00:47:28,549 --> 00:47:26,160
at first looks like a satellite in terms

1413
00:47:30,549 --> 00:47:28,559
of its about the right size going about

1414
00:47:31,750 --> 00:47:30,559
the right speed and it's tracking across

1415
00:47:35,190 --> 00:47:31,760
the sky

1416
00:47:37,190 --> 00:47:35,200
but it'll either then stop and shoot

1417
00:47:39,270 --> 00:47:37,200
straight up into space or dart left or

1418
00:47:42,390 --> 00:47:39,280
right or often what i've seen i saw it

1419
00:47:43,990 --> 00:47:42,400
at monroe and i've seen it since then

1420
00:47:46,470 --> 00:47:44,000
it'll just disappear

1421
00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:46,480
it just goes away satellites don't do

1422
00:47:49,670 --> 00:47:48,000
that right on a clear night when they're

1423
00:47:52,470 --> 00:47:49,680
not going into a cloud bank they don't

1424
00:47:53,750 --> 00:47:52,480
just disappear um so again there's

1425
00:47:55,030 --> 00:47:53,760
certain

1426
00:47:56,390 --> 00:47:55,040
it's interesting because when you think

1427
00:47:58,549 --> 00:47:56,400
about the intelligence behind this

1428
00:48:00,790 --> 00:47:58,559
phenomenon or at least this aspect of it

1429
00:48:03,030 --> 00:48:00,800
that i've encountered

1430
00:48:04,790 --> 00:48:03,040
it seems to

1431
00:48:06,710 --> 00:48:04,800
for me anyway i feel like it knows my

1432
00:48:07,829 --> 00:48:06,720
assumptions and sometimes responds to my

1433
00:48:09,109 --> 00:48:07,839
assumptions

1434
00:48:11,910 --> 00:48:09,119
so

1435
00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:11,920
uh you know one example is uh

1436
00:48:15,589 --> 00:48:13,760
i remember saying in an interview with

1437
00:48:17,510 --> 00:48:15,599
james iandoli for his engaging the

1438
00:48:19,910 --> 00:48:17,520
phenomenon channel that you shouldn't

1439
00:48:22,069 --> 00:48:19,920
necessarily expect pyrotechnics right it

1440
00:48:23,190 --> 00:48:22,079
can be something quite subtle and if

1441
00:48:24,549 --> 00:48:23,200
you're not paying attention if you're

1442
00:48:25,990 --> 00:48:24,559
not diligent enough and if you don't do

1443
00:48:27,430 --> 00:48:26,000
it for long enough you could easily miss

1444
00:48:29,349 --> 00:48:27,440
it

1445
00:48:32,069 --> 00:48:29,359
but then uh

1446
00:48:33,510 --> 00:48:32,079
you know when i was with chris bledsoe

1447
00:48:35,589 --> 00:48:33,520
just the two of us

1448
00:48:36,630 --> 00:48:35,599
i saw and it did look like a pyrotechnic

1449
00:48:38,390 --> 00:48:36,640
in the sky

1450
00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:38,400
it looked like something lit up like a

1451
00:48:42,630 --> 00:48:40,480
quarter of the sky you know it's just an

1452
00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:42,640
orb that manifested and then

1453
00:48:44,950 --> 00:48:43,680
flared up

1454
00:48:46,549 --> 00:48:44,960
corner of the sky and then just

1455
00:48:50,150 --> 00:48:46,559
disappeared you know

1456
00:48:52,230 --> 00:48:50,160
and um and so that to me was almost like

1457
00:48:54,309 --> 00:48:52,240
picking up a sense of humor like

1458
00:48:56,470 --> 00:48:54,319
don't the second you try to categorize

1459
00:48:58,390 --> 00:48:56,480
how this shows up it might very well do

1460
00:48:59,910 --> 00:48:58,400
the opposite of that so it feels like

1461
00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:59,920
there's a bit of a play with my

1462
00:49:02,630 --> 00:49:01,440
consciousness going on there so that's

1463
00:49:06,470 --> 00:49:02,640
an example

1464
00:49:07,510 --> 00:49:06,480
um the most recent one i experienced was

1465
00:49:11,750 --> 00:49:07,520
uh

1466
00:49:15,190 --> 00:49:11,760
i drove up on the blue ridge parkway

1467
00:49:16,710 --> 00:49:15,200
which is where where nathan and i live

1468
00:49:17,990 --> 00:49:16,720
and you can drive up to a place called

1469
00:49:21,349 --> 00:49:18,000
mount pisgah

1470
00:49:22,470 --> 00:49:21,359
highest points in the entire eastern

1471
00:49:23,670 --> 00:49:22,480
seaboard

1472
00:49:25,430 --> 00:49:23,680
still not that high compared to the

1473
00:49:28,069 --> 00:49:25,440
rocky mountains or something

1474
00:49:29,589 --> 00:49:28,079
but it's one of the highest points and

1475
00:49:31,990 --> 00:49:29,599
uh

1476
00:49:33,109 --> 00:49:32,000
parked my car and was was looking at the

1477
00:49:34,870 --> 00:49:33,119
night sky

1478
00:49:36,950 --> 00:49:34,880
again sort of just being aware of what

1479
00:49:38,549 --> 00:49:36,960
might or might not show up and at one

1480
00:49:41,109 --> 00:49:38,559
point was just about ready to go home

1481
00:49:42,630 --> 00:49:41,119
i'd been there for a couple hours

1482
00:49:44,309 --> 00:49:42,640
and uh

1483
00:49:45,430 --> 00:49:44,319
and it had just used my binoculars

1484
00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:45,440
actually and didn't see anything and i

1485
00:49:49,910 --> 00:49:47,200
was just about packing up to go home and

1486
00:49:51,990 --> 00:49:49,920
i looked up one more time and something

1487
00:49:54,390 --> 00:49:52,000
shot across only about a hundred feet up

1488
00:49:55,349 --> 00:49:54,400
from me something orb-like shot across

1489
00:49:56,829 --> 00:49:55,359
the sky

1490
00:50:00,470 --> 00:49:56,839
really quick and then just

1491
00:50:01,990 --> 00:50:00,480
dematerialized um so again it it felt

1492
00:50:03,829 --> 00:50:02,000
like

1493
00:50:05,990 --> 00:50:03,839
even the way it was showing up was

1494
00:50:07,349 --> 00:50:06,000
playing with me a little bit and

1495
00:50:09,109 --> 00:50:07,359
uh just when i thought i was going to go

1496
00:50:10,950 --> 00:50:09,119
home and empty-handed that's what

1497
00:50:12,230 --> 00:50:10,960
happened which isn't to say it always

1498
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:12,240
happens there's plenty of times i go and

1499
00:50:15,589 --> 00:50:13,520
look and nothing happens just to be

1500
00:50:17,589 --> 00:50:15,599
clear but that was the most recent one

1501
00:50:20,950 --> 00:50:17,599
and that too felt like it was somehow

1502
00:50:22,630 --> 00:50:20,960
responding directly to my expectations

1503
00:50:24,710 --> 00:50:22,640
yeah i find that really fascinating and

1504
00:50:27,829 --> 00:50:24,720
it actually it's strange almost in a

1505
00:50:29,670 --> 00:50:27,839
slight synchronous synchronicity way

1506
00:50:30,950 --> 00:50:29,680
that for someone like me

1507
00:50:32,630 --> 00:50:30,960
has this nuts and bolts and you

1508
00:50:34,309 --> 00:50:32,640
mentioned you know triangles and tic

1509
00:50:36,069 --> 00:50:34,319
tacs and stuff and you know that's all i

1510
00:50:38,069 --> 00:50:36,079
ever wanted to see

1511
00:50:40,390 --> 00:50:38,079
but it's taken until earlier this year

1512
00:50:42,790 --> 00:50:40,400
when i did have my first sighting and

1513
00:50:46,069 --> 00:50:42,800
funnily enough it was an orb it was not

1514
00:50:47,030 --> 00:50:46,079
what i was expecting so it's crazy you

1515
00:50:50,710 --> 00:50:47,040
know how

1516
00:50:53,349 --> 00:50:50,720
these things work so i i yeah it it

1517
00:50:54,549 --> 00:50:53,359
baffles me to be honest um

1518
00:50:55,910 --> 00:50:54,559
nathan have you got anything you want to

1519
00:50:58,069 --> 00:50:55,920
add in on that i feel like i'm leaving

1520
00:51:00,470 --> 00:50:58,079
you out man no it's i i'm just here to

1521
00:51:02,549 --> 00:51:00,480
listen to you guys so it's all good um i

1522
00:51:05,349 --> 00:51:02,559
you know all i would add is that um you

1523
00:51:07,829 --> 00:51:05,359
know those of us who've listened to to

1524
00:51:09,750 --> 00:51:07,839
darren and i's show or listen to my show

1525
00:51:10,710 --> 00:51:09,760
uh i have not had an experience and i

1526
00:51:12,150 --> 00:51:10,720
think it's that that's kind of

1527
00:51:14,870 --> 00:51:12,160
frustrating it's like i really want one

1528
00:51:15,589 --> 00:51:14,880
i'm i'm trying to seek one in a way

1529
00:51:17,510 --> 00:51:15,599
but

1530
00:51:19,270 --> 00:51:17,520
you know on the other hand there's one

1531
00:51:20,470 --> 00:51:19,280
way that i look at this now

1532
00:51:23,750 --> 00:51:20,480
and that's

1533
00:51:24,630 --> 00:51:23,760
the interpersonal uh uh component to

1534
00:51:25,750 --> 00:51:24,640
this

1535
00:51:29,510 --> 00:51:25,760
and

1536
00:51:31,829 --> 00:51:29,520
different but taking the stories of

1537
00:51:33,109 --> 00:51:31,839
those who i know and who i meet who i

1538
00:51:35,190 --> 00:51:33,119
interact with

1539
00:51:37,750 --> 00:51:35,200
taking them seriously

1540
00:51:40,390 --> 00:51:37,760
as darren likes to point out it it

1541
00:51:42,950 --> 00:51:40,400
begins to accumulate a body of evidence

1542
00:51:43,910 --> 00:51:42,960
that in a way becomes an experience of

1543
00:51:45,829 --> 00:51:43,920
my own

1544
00:51:47,829 --> 00:51:45,839
so it's it's a type of living

1545
00:51:49,750 --> 00:51:47,839
vicariously but

1546
00:51:51,030 --> 00:51:49,760
you know what i like about this subject

1547
00:51:52,790 --> 00:51:51,040
is it

1548
00:51:55,030 --> 00:51:52,800
it sort of redeems this human

1549
00:51:57,910 --> 00:51:55,040
interaction you know it doesn't

1550
00:52:00,710 --> 00:51:57,920
dismiss another person's experiences and

1551
00:52:02,630 --> 00:52:00,720
i think in our western sort of society

1552
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:02,640
we've come to a place where

1553
00:52:06,630 --> 00:52:04,640
we really like being dismissive of the

1554
00:52:08,549 --> 00:52:06,640
strange things which we have not been

1555
00:52:11,030 --> 00:52:08,559
able to put into a box

1556
00:52:13,030 --> 00:52:11,040
and what this does it it provides space

1557
00:52:14,309 --> 00:52:13,040
for us to say you know what i i want to

1558
00:52:16,230 --> 00:52:14,319
hear you

1559
00:52:18,950 --> 00:52:16,240
i want to understand what you're saying

1560
00:52:21,190 --> 00:52:18,960
i want to you know you know get to the

1561
00:52:22,549 --> 00:52:21,200
bottom of whatever this is i'm gonna i'm

1562
00:52:24,069 --> 00:52:22,559
gonna treat you and i'm gonna treat this

1563
00:52:26,630 --> 00:52:24,079
seriously doesn't mean i have to believe

1564
00:52:29,430 --> 00:52:26,640
it but it does give me that space and i

1565
00:52:32,309 --> 00:52:29,440
think something emerges from that space

1566
00:52:34,549 --> 00:52:32,319
that the the two people share in that

1567
00:52:36,630 --> 00:52:34,559
interaction

1568
00:52:38,790 --> 00:52:36,640
yeah i i that makes us so much sense as

1569
00:52:40,470 --> 00:52:38,800
well really does just before we move on

1570
00:52:42,150 --> 00:52:40,480
to the next uh next question i just want

1571
00:52:44,950 --> 00:52:42,160
to give a quick shout out aaron r thank

1572
00:52:46,710 --> 00:52:44,960
you so much for the donation i really do

1573
00:52:49,910 --> 00:52:46,720
appreciate it so that means a lot and

1574
00:52:51,990 --> 00:52:49,920
lara as well thank you so much um it is

1575
00:52:54,710 --> 00:52:52,000
a fantastic conversation i'm having a

1576
00:52:56,630 --> 00:52:54,720
wild great time i knew i would as well

1577
00:52:58,710 --> 00:52:56,640
so thank you guys for the donations it

1578
00:53:00,710 --> 00:52:58,720
really does mean so much but you know

1579
00:53:02,230 --> 00:53:00,720
guys i i always say if you want to ask

1580
00:53:04,069 --> 00:53:02,240
questions you do not have to pay you

1581
00:53:05,430 --> 00:53:04,079
just pop them in capital letters and i

1582
00:53:07,109 --> 00:53:05,440
can tell you i've got a few so what

1583
00:53:09,430 --> 00:53:07,119
we'll do is we'll jump onto it to one of

1584
00:53:11,349 --> 00:53:09,440
you guys questions so

1585
00:53:13,750 --> 00:53:11,359
this one is kind of makes sense to what

1586
00:53:14,870 --> 00:53:13,760
we're talking about sophie asks she's

1587
00:53:17,109 --> 00:53:14,880
interested to know if there is a

1588
00:53:19,430 --> 00:53:17,119
connection in the color of an orb or

1589
00:53:21,589 --> 00:53:19,440
when in the color and or presents itself

1590
00:53:24,390 --> 00:53:21,599
sorry and its intention i have witnessed

1591
00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:24,400
white gold and blue orbs that's a good

1592
00:53:28,630 --> 00:53:26,640
question

1593
00:53:32,230 --> 00:53:28,640
it is and it's it's certainly a

1594
00:53:34,069 --> 00:53:32,240
plausible possibility in my mind um

1595
00:53:35,670 --> 00:53:34,079
and not necessarily in a fixed way right

1596
00:53:37,589 --> 00:53:35,680
like i think again

1597
00:53:39,510 --> 00:53:37,599
what i see is evidence that

1598
00:53:40,790 --> 00:53:39,520
however they manifest spatially

1599
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:40,800
temporally

1600
00:53:46,150 --> 00:53:43,680
is often meant to communicate something

1601
00:53:48,150 --> 00:53:46,160
but it can be crafted on the fly so it's

1602
00:53:49,990 --> 00:53:48,160
possible that what you know

1603
00:53:52,069 --> 00:53:50,000
blue might mean something to someone and

1604
00:53:53,270 --> 00:53:52,079
so it might appear as a blue orb

1605
00:53:55,190 --> 00:53:53,280
um

1606
00:53:57,270 --> 00:53:55,200
you know to one person because it has a

1607
00:53:59,829 --> 00:53:57,280
special significance for them now is it

1608
00:54:01,670 --> 00:53:59,839
possible on top of that that um

1609
00:54:03,190 --> 00:54:01,680
there's some significance to the colors

1610
00:54:04,950 --> 00:54:03,200
in general that's that's possible i

1611
00:54:06,069 --> 00:54:04,960
haven't covered that a lot in my own

1612
00:54:07,510 --> 00:54:06,079
research

1613
00:54:09,750 --> 00:54:07,520
i do know that

1614
00:54:11,589 --> 00:54:09,760
in talking to people like chris bledsoe

1615
00:54:13,829 --> 00:54:11,599
who experience these things all the time

1616
00:54:15,109 --> 00:54:13,839
uh they will often like change color as

1617
00:54:17,109 --> 00:54:15,119
they're coming through our atmosphere

1618
00:54:19,430 --> 00:54:17,119
and they they might start white and then

1619
00:54:20,870 --> 00:54:19,440
go gold or vice versa kind of thing

1620
00:54:22,390 --> 00:54:20,880
which might have to do with like you

1621
00:54:23,829 --> 00:54:22,400
know we think about red shifting and how

1622
00:54:25,510 --> 00:54:23,839
we can determine whether something's

1623
00:54:27,910 --> 00:54:25,520
moving away in the universe or coming

1624
00:54:29,750 --> 00:54:27,920
closer things like that like it's it's

1625
00:54:32,230 --> 00:54:29,760
some the color actually is an indication

1626
00:54:34,309 --> 00:54:32,240
of what's going on physically uh with it

1627
00:54:36,309 --> 00:54:34,319
as well uh it's fascinating question

1628
00:54:38,390 --> 00:54:36,319
definitely possible

1629
00:54:40,150 --> 00:54:38,400
uh yeah again you mentioned redshift

1630
00:54:41,829 --> 00:54:40,160
there and i'll you know without spoiling

1631
00:54:43,349 --> 00:54:41,839
too much because obviously

1632
00:54:44,710 --> 00:54:43,359
my sighting happened in colombia and

1633
00:54:46,390 --> 00:54:44,720
we're kind of halfway through airing the

1634
00:54:47,349 --> 00:54:46,400
series that we that we filmed out there

1635
00:54:49,670 --> 00:54:47,359
but

1636
00:54:51,109 --> 00:54:49,680
yeah what the hell so we saw an orb and

1637
00:54:53,030 --> 00:54:51,119
it showed

1638
00:54:55,190 --> 00:54:53,040
what we think was

1639
00:54:56,950 --> 00:54:55,200
a bits of blue shift bits of redshift at

1640
00:54:58,549 --> 00:54:56,960
certain points

1641
00:55:01,030 --> 00:54:58,559
i don't know i'm not an analyst on

1642
00:55:03,109 --> 00:55:01,040
videos and stuff so you know when

1643
00:55:04,470 --> 00:55:03,119
that when the final episode is aired

1644
00:55:06,870 --> 00:55:04,480
we're going to release all the footage

1645
00:55:08,549 --> 00:55:06,880
we took of this phenomena so people can

1646
00:55:10,630 --> 00:55:08,559
examine it and help us basically but

1647
00:55:13,270 --> 00:55:10,640
that it just resonated with me

1648
00:55:15,670 --> 00:55:13,280
um one thing i did want to get into with

1649
00:55:17,430 --> 00:55:15,680
this talk of orbs and you know with

1650
00:55:19,430 --> 00:55:17,440
nathan here as well and his

1651
00:55:21,990 --> 00:55:19,440
his knowledge on the religious aspect of

1652
00:55:23,270 --> 00:55:22,000
stuff as well is apparitions fatima

1653
00:55:26,710 --> 00:55:23,280
things like that

1654
00:55:29,030 --> 00:55:26,720
where does that fit in and

1655
00:55:38,069 --> 00:55:29,040
yeah where does it fit in i suppose um

1656
00:55:41,829 --> 00:55:40,150
no i mean it's um

1657
00:55:44,470 --> 00:55:41,839
you know certainly there

1658
00:55:48,069 --> 00:55:44,480
there's a lot of that within the western

1659
00:55:50,230 --> 00:55:48,079
christian religious tradition of

1660
00:55:53,030 --> 00:55:50,240
speaking with the dead or

1661
00:55:54,549 --> 00:55:53,040
uh angelic visitation uh of course you

1662
00:55:56,069 --> 00:55:54,559
have possession as well which kind of

1663
00:55:58,870 --> 00:55:56,079
fits into some of this

1664
00:56:01,109 --> 00:55:58,880
so i think we

1665
00:56:04,150 --> 00:56:01,119
to me this is why this phenomenon is so

1666
00:56:05,349 --> 00:56:04,160
powerful because it it really does have

1667
00:56:07,430 --> 00:56:05,359
tendrils

1668
00:56:09,109 --> 00:56:07,440
uh in sort of all of these different

1669
00:56:11,430 --> 00:56:09,119
types of experiences

1670
00:56:13,109 --> 00:56:11,440
and to go back to things that darren

1671
00:56:14,470 --> 00:56:13,119
said at the top of the show

1672
00:56:17,349 --> 00:56:14,480
when he started talking about

1673
00:56:18,309 --> 00:56:17,359
consciousness and the way that

1674
00:56:21,190 --> 00:56:18,319
we

1675
00:56:22,470 --> 00:56:21,200
sort of mediate reality

1676
00:56:23,990 --> 00:56:22,480
apparitions

1677
00:56:25,670 --> 00:56:24,000
you know they're they're a part of that

1678
00:56:27,430 --> 00:56:25,680
fabric you know that

1679
00:56:28,390 --> 00:56:27,440
just because we can't understand them

1680
00:56:30,870 --> 00:56:28,400
through

1681
00:56:33,670 --> 00:56:30,880
sort of the way we understand me having

1682
00:56:35,510 --> 00:56:33,680
a chat with you in person does not mean

1683
00:56:37,510 --> 00:56:35,520
that that they don't exist that they

1684
00:56:40,309 --> 00:56:37,520
don't uh you know have any kind of

1685
00:56:42,150 --> 00:56:40,319
realness or real quality to them um and

1686
00:56:43,510 --> 00:56:42,160
i find it interesting too that these

1687
00:56:45,910 --> 00:56:43,520
moments that are recorded these

1688
00:56:47,589 --> 00:56:45,920
apparitional moments you know they do

1689
00:56:50,390 --> 00:56:47,599
often spark

1690
00:56:52,230 --> 00:56:50,400
some kind of behavioral shift

1691
00:56:55,349 --> 00:56:52,240
you know within the individual and

1692
00:56:58,870 --> 00:56:55,359
oftentimes those shifts end up creating

1693
00:57:00,309 --> 00:56:58,880
religious behavior you know so i i you

1694
00:57:01,910 --> 00:57:00,319
know sometimes i wonder we've talked

1695
00:57:04,549 --> 00:57:01,920
about this darren you know if you want

1696
00:57:07,030 --> 00:57:04,559
to expound on it but to what extent is

1697
00:57:09,109 --> 00:57:07,040
that intentional you know to where

1698
00:57:11,109 --> 00:57:09,119
these uh sort of apparitions are

1699
00:57:13,750 --> 00:57:11,119
intending us to kind of

1700
00:57:15,910 --> 00:57:13,760
change our behavior to do x y z or if

1701
00:57:18,150 --> 00:57:15,920
we're misinterpreting the experience and

1702
00:57:19,910 --> 00:57:18,160
we're trying to recreate it and we

1703
00:57:21,270 --> 00:57:19,920
recreate it by creating things that we

1704
00:57:22,870 --> 00:57:21,280
call rituals

1705
00:57:24,789 --> 00:57:22,880
you know that then become religious

1706
00:57:26,549 --> 00:57:24,799
behavior you know so i wonder if it's

1707
00:57:28,069 --> 00:57:26,559
sort of a lost in translation thing

1708
00:57:29,270 --> 00:57:28,079
happening there

1709
00:57:31,349 --> 00:57:29,280
interesting

1710
00:57:33,510 --> 00:57:31,359
darren what's your take on that

1711
00:57:35,829 --> 00:57:33,520
yeah i would say you know one of the

1712
00:57:37,589 --> 00:57:35,839
most fascinating parts of you know chris

1713
00:57:40,549 --> 00:57:37,599
bledsoe's case is his experience with

1714
00:57:42,230 --> 00:57:40,559
the lady figure right and um i can tell

1715
00:57:43,990 --> 00:57:42,240
you that

1716
00:57:45,670 --> 00:57:44,000
people in high places both

1717
00:57:47,589 --> 00:57:45,680
governmentally and in terms of the

1718
00:57:49,109 --> 00:57:47,599
vatican

1719
00:57:51,750 --> 00:57:49,119
there are definitely key figures there

1720
00:57:54,630 --> 00:57:51,760
that see it as the same

1721
00:57:57,109 --> 00:57:54,640
phenomenon as what happened at fatima

1722
00:57:58,630 --> 00:57:57,119
and lourdes and other places where what

1723
00:58:00,549 --> 00:57:58,640
has been considered the virgin mary

1724
00:58:02,789 --> 00:58:00,559
manifested and of course

1725
00:58:05,430 --> 00:58:02,799
when you think about

1726
00:58:07,270 --> 00:58:05,440
what people actually saw

1727
00:58:09,190 --> 00:58:07,280
there's there's no conclusive evidence

1728
00:58:11,510 --> 00:58:09,200
suggesting it's the virgin mary that is

1729
00:58:13,349 --> 00:58:11,520
sort of an after the fact interpretation

1730
00:58:14,470 --> 00:58:13,359
fitting a round peg into a square hole

1731
00:58:16,870 --> 00:58:14,480
kind of thing

1732
00:58:18,470 --> 00:58:16,880
there's some superficial similarities

1733
00:58:20,069 --> 00:58:18,480
but a lot of differences

1734
00:58:22,390 --> 00:58:20,079
and as jacques villa pointed out there

1735
00:58:25,190 --> 00:58:22,400
were sort of classical ufological kind

1736
00:58:27,910 --> 00:58:25,200
of uh elements like even a couple years

1737
00:58:31,349 --> 00:58:27,920
before her manifestation her you know

1738
00:58:33,109 --> 00:58:31,359
whatever that is uh so

1739
00:58:34,470 --> 00:58:33,119
you have one group really you know one

1740
00:58:36,470 --> 00:58:34,480
of the things that nathan and i talk a

1741
00:58:38,230 --> 00:58:36,480
lot about on liminal frames is is

1742
00:58:40,710 --> 00:58:38,240
sociological framing

1743
00:58:41,990 --> 00:58:40,720
so from a catholic point of view

1744
00:58:45,030 --> 00:58:42,000
you have certain assumptions about

1745
00:58:47,510 --> 00:58:45,040
reality so you see a female figure with

1746
00:58:49,190 --> 00:58:47,520
like divine characteristics showing up

1747
00:58:51,349 --> 00:58:49,200
you're gonna check that box right on the

1748
00:58:53,430 --> 00:58:51,359
the four-point possibility that's that's

1749
00:58:56,309 --> 00:58:53,440
the virgin mary right it's not jesus

1750
00:58:57,910 --> 00:58:56,319
it's not lucifer you know it's not uh

1751
00:58:59,109 --> 00:58:57,920
francis of assisi

1752
00:59:00,309 --> 00:58:59,119
uh

1753
00:59:03,030 --> 00:59:00,319
but on the but if you're coming from a

1754
00:59:05,030 --> 00:59:03,040
ufological point of view and you see uh

1755
00:59:06,710 --> 00:59:05,040
what looks like solid craft and even

1756
00:59:08,630 --> 00:59:06,720
like being something to crawl out on a

1757
00:59:11,750 --> 00:59:08,640
ladder from a craft things like that

1758
00:59:13,510 --> 00:59:11,760
that doesn't fit with like a typical

1759
00:59:15,109 --> 00:59:13,520
notion of how angels tend to show up

1760
00:59:18,470 --> 00:59:15,119
right it sounds more like

1761
00:59:20,150 --> 00:59:18,480
uh alien beings right and and technology

1762
00:59:21,270 --> 00:59:20,160
right and yet what what i'm saying is

1763
00:59:22,710 --> 00:59:21,280
that

1764
00:59:25,109 --> 00:59:22,720
all those elements were associated with

1765
00:59:27,270 --> 00:59:25,119
the very same occurrence like in fatima

1766
00:59:29,750 --> 00:59:27,280
you have all those things going on

1767
00:59:31,589 --> 00:59:29,760
and in people like chris's case you have

1768
00:59:32,390 --> 00:59:31,599
all of these things going on everything

1769
00:59:34,069 --> 00:59:32,400
from

1770
00:59:35,190 --> 00:59:34,079
stuff that manifests that looks like a

1771
00:59:36,150 --> 00:59:35,200
tic tac

1772
00:59:39,109 --> 00:59:36,160
to

1773
00:59:40,309 --> 00:59:39,119
a you know angelic lady figure appearing

1774
00:59:41,910 --> 00:59:40,319
you know um

1775
00:59:43,430 --> 00:59:41,920
so

1776
00:59:45,190 --> 00:59:43,440
but we can't really talk about any of

1777
00:59:47,190 --> 00:59:45,200
this without talking about my my

1778
00:59:48,870 --> 00:59:47,200
favorite talking point that i always

1779
00:59:50,470 --> 00:59:48,880
like to bring up is that

1780
00:59:52,630 --> 00:59:50,480
you know the overarching one of the

1781
00:59:55,190 --> 00:59:52,640
biggest questions is is this ultimately

1782
00:59:58,870 --> 00:59:55,200
one phenomenon that's manifesting in

1783
01:00:01,030 --> 00:59:58,880
many ways or is it that we're realizing

1784
01:00:03,109 --> 01:00:01,040
reality is such that

1785
01:00:05,030 --> 01:00:03,119
many different entities potentially from

1786
01:00:06,950 --> 01:00:05,040
completely different origin sources are

1787
01:00:09,510 --> 01:00:06,960
actually interacting with us

1788
01:00:11,990 --> 01:00:09,520
and part of the confusion is that we we

1789
01:00:13,109 --> 01:00:12,000
try to draw from one narrative when

1790
01:00:14,309 --> 01:00:13,119
there's actually

1791
01:00:16,630 --> 01:00:14,319
numerous narratives going on

1792
01:00:18,630 --> 01:00:16,640
simultaneously um

1793
01:00:21,510 --> 01:00:18,640
i was talking to a friend from europe

1794
01:00:23,670 --> 01:00:21,520
today and uh earlier and he he and i

1795
01:00:25,910 --> 01:00:23,680
were talking about how um

1796
01:00:27,589 --> 01:00:25,920
it's like if we discover that you have a

1797
01:00:29,030 --> 01:00:27,599
wi-fi connection and you're like oh it's

1798
01:00:31,430 --> 01:00:29,040
crazy i have this computer it turns out

1799
01:00:33,270 --> 01:00:31,440
it has a wi-fi connection and so vinnie

1800
01:00:36,870 --> 01:00:33,280
dropped a folder

1801
01:00:38,150 --> 01:00:36,880
from the uk how did that's amazing right

1802
01:00:40,710 --> 01:00:38,160
going

1803
01:00:44,069 --> 01:00:40,720
it was weird i've got 10 folders so they

1804
01:00:46,309 --> 01:00:44,079
must all be from vinnie turns out nathan

1805
01:00:48,789 --> 01:00:46,319
you know in in in the blue ridge

1806
01:00:50,309 --> 01:00:48,799
mountains here also dropped one in my

1807
01:00:52,630 --> 01:00:50,319
point being the second you discover that

1808
01:00:54,150 --> 01:00:52,640
a wi-fi connection is something that

1809
01:00:56,069 --> 01:00:54,160
plausibly exists

1810
01:00:58,470 --> 01:00:56,079
where things outside of your construct

1811
01:01:01,030 --> 01:00:58,480
can drop things into your construct

1812
01:01:02,950 --> 01:01:01,040
then to me it seems like the logical uh

1813
01:01:04,870 --> 01:01:02,960
assumption to go with is that numerous

1814
01:01:06,789 --> 01:01:04,880
entities might be able to access that

1815
01:01:08,390 --> 01:01:06,799
wi-fi connection just like the three of

1816
01:01:10,789 --> 01:01:08,400
us are talking from three different

1817
01:01:12,630 --> 01:01:10,799
locations and until we have compelling

1818
01:01:14,950 --> 01:01:12,640
evidence to suggest it's all vinnie

1819
01:01:17,109 --> 01:01:14,960
doing it from the uk

1820
01:01:19,270 --> 01:01:17,119
to assume actually there's probably many

1821
01:01:21,030 --> 01:01:19,280
actors i think that's

1822
01:01:22,710 --> 01:01:21,040
overwhelming to people because it's

1823
01:01:24,309 --> 01:01:22,720
already such a huge

1824
01:01:26,950 --> 01:01:24,319
shift to go wait a second you're saying

1825
01:01:30,230 --> 01:01:26,960
our reality has a wi-fi connection that

1826
01:01:33,270 --> 01:01:30,240
that other beings from other locales can

1827
01:01:35,190 --> 01:01:33,280
can drop stuff in and interact yes

1828
01:01:36,950 --> 01:01:35,200
and and and the likelihood is that

1829
01:01:39,589 --> 01:01:36,960
there's there's that that connection can

1830
01:01:40,630 --> 01:01:39,599
be accessed from numerous places um by

1831
01:01:42,789 --> 01:01:40,640
numerous different kinds of

1832
01:01:44,470 --> 01:01:42,799
intelligences so that's all i would add

1833
01:01:46,309 --> 01:01:44,480
is that you know

1834
01:01:49,030 --> 01:01:46,319
the encounters i've had are all positive

1835
01:01:50,710 --> 01:01:49,040
right now that's partly because i i do

1836
01:01:52,870 --> 01:01:50,720
practice spiritual hygiene i go in with

1837
01:01:54,549 --> 01:01:52,880
a certain expectation again i'm trying

1838
01:01:55,990 --> 01:01:54,559
to prime the experience i'm trying to be

1839
01:01:58,390 --> 01:01:56,000
self-aware about the way that i might

1840
01:01:59,670 --> 01:01:58,400
get a reflective aspect coming back at

1841
01:02:01,349 --> 01:01:59,680
me how what is that going to be

1842
01:02:03,430 --> 01:02:01,359
populated with when i send that package

1843
01:02:05,430 --> 01:02:03,440
across

1844
01:02:06,789 --> 01:02:05,440
but you know some people do have

1845
01:02:08,549 --> 01:02:06,799
negative interactions and it would be

1846
01:02:10,630 --> 01:02:08,559
disingenuous to pretend those don't

1847
01:02:12,950 --> 01:02:10,640
exist or that they're all just military

1848
01:02:14,710 --> 01:02:12,960
psyops or something um

1849
01:02:16,549 --> 01:02:14,720
but you know

1850
01:02:18,549 --> 01:02:16,559
that is the one of the biggest questions

1851
01:02:19,990 --> 01:02:18,559
is like how many are involved where are

1852
01:02:21,349 --> 01:02:20,000
they coming from and i would just say

1853
01:02:23,270 --> 01:02:21,359
let's not jump to conclusions

1854
01:02:24,630 --> 01:02:23,280
prematurely

1855
01:02:26,309 --> 01:02:24,640
yeah and if i could just add really

1856
01:02:28,069 --> 01:02:26,319
quickly uh it makes me want to change

1857
01:02:30,069 --> 01:02:28,079
the wi-fi password

1858
01:02:32,390 --> 01:02:30,079
uh just so that uh i don't have that

1859
01:02:34,230 --> 01:02:32,400
happening you know i just said i got you

1860
01:02:36,230 --> 01:02:34,240
gotta have good network security guys

1861
01:02:37,910 --> 01:02:36,240
that's the takeaway here but uh i just

1862
01:02:39,990 --> 01:02:37,920
want to say thank you both uh for the

1863
01:02:41,750 --> 01:02:40,000
time i'm gonna jet it's just a pleasure

1864
01:02:43,670 --> 01:02:41,760
uh listening and talking with both of

1865
01:02:45,670 --> 01:02:43,680
you and and hide all the listeners out

1866
01:02:47,829 --> 01:02:45,680
there as well i keep up the great chat

1867
01:02:50,069 --> 01:02:47,839
and i know i'll see you both around all

1868
01:02:54,549 --> 01:02:50,079
right definitely thank you guys

1869
01:03:01,270 --> 01:02:56,630
oh man i hope you don't mind that i did

1870
01:03:06,069 --> 01:03:03,510
yeah that was a fun surprise very cool

1871
01:03:07,829 --> 01:03:06,079
yeah good good now i've just got a

1872
01:03:10,230 --> 01:03:07,839
couple of more uh questions from from

1873
01:03:12,710 --> 01:03:10,240
the audience here which are fantastic uh

1874
01:03:14,789 --> 01:03:12,720
moon raises an interesting one here is

1875
01:03:18,710 --> 01:03:14,799
the lady similar to the lady scene with

1876
01:03:23,589 --> 01:03:20,710
that is a fascinating question for a

1877
01:03:25,349 --> 01:03:23,599
couple different reasons one being that

1878
01:03:28,230 --> 01:03:25,359
again when we talk about these different

1879
01:03:30,549 --> 01:03:28,240
contact modalities ce5 or heist is one

1880
01:03:32,710 --> 01:03:30,559
right astral projection is another

1881
01:03:35,029 --> 01:03:32,720
psychedelic journeys are another right

1882
01:03:36,150 --> 01:03:35,039
and i've had some experience of those

1883
01:03:39,109 --> 01:03:36,160
myself

1884
01:03:41,029 --> 01:03:39,119
and um have encountered what often feels

1885
01:03:42,470 --> 01:03:41,039
like uh you know a different kind of

1886
01:03:45,190 --> 01:03:42,480
intelligence

1887
01:03:46,950 --> 01:03:45,200
although i will add and i know this will

1888
01:03:48,470 --> 01:03:46,960
sound even more complex to people but i

1889
01:03:50,630 --> 01:03:48,480
would say one of the

1890
01:03:52,549 --> 01:03:50,640
the tricky and prickly parts of this

1891
01:03:54,309 --> 01:03:52,559
entire conversation is that i think we

1892
01:03:55,829 --> 01:03:54,319
ourselves ultimately are

1893
01:03:59,029 --> 01:03:55,839
multi-dimensional

1894
01:04:01,190 --> 01:03:59,039
in nature and so sometimes that

1895
01:04:02,309 --> 01:04:01,200
makes it complex

1896
01:04:03,829 --> 01:04:02,319
knowing

1897
01:04:05,589 --> 01:04:03,839
how are we involved and in what way are

1898
01:04:07,430 --> 01:04:05,599
we involved and one thing i could have

1899
01:04:10,069 --> 01:04:07,440
mentioned earlier was that in terms of

1900
01:04:11,750 --> 01:04:10,079
the consciousness piece

1901
01:04:14,069 --> 01:04:11,760
one thing that people

1902
01:04:15,510 --> 01:04:14,079
often mention about having an

1903
01:04:17,349 --> 01:04:15,520
interaction with these others right one

1904
01:04:19,829 --> 01:04:17,359
of the ongoing questions is is this

1905
01:04:21,029 --> 01:04:19,839
happening in physical reality right

1906
01:04:23,190 --> 01:04:21,039
again that makes all sorts of

1907
01:04:24,789 --> 01:04:23,200
assumptions about what counts as real

1908
01:04:26,470 --> 01:04:24,799
and what doesn't right

1909
01:04:28,069 --> 01:04:26,480
but often people report

1910
01:04:29,109 --> 01:04:28,079
it's seeming to happen almost in an

1911
01:04:30,950 --> 01:04:29,119
alternate

1912
01:04:32,870 --> 01:04:30,960
reality or ultimate domain different

1913
01:04:35,190 --> 01:04:32,880
modality or an altered state of

1914
01:04:37,910 --> 01:04:35,200
consciousness which again brings up what

1915
01:04:40,789 --> 01:04:37,920
happens with psychedelics right um

1916
01:04:43,589 --> 01:04:40,799
i think that ultimately

1917
01:04:46,470 --> 01:04:43,599
even what we consider consensus reality

1918
01:04:49,829 --> 01:04:46,480
actually is just one of many modalities

1919
01:04:51,990 --> 01:04:49,839
that are kind of like a mind space

1920
01:04:54,069 --> 01:04:52,000
a dreamscape if you will that that and

1921
01:04:56,069 --> 01:04:54,079
ultimately this is not fundamentally

1922
01:04:57,829 --> 01:04:56,079
different than what i experienced in a

1923
01:05:00,630 --> 01:04:57,839
dream last night right

1924
01:05:02,470 --> 01:05:00,640
um and or that you are with psychedelics

1925
01:05:05,270 --> 01:05:02,480
and i think what psychedelics might be

1926
01:05:06,950 --> 01:05:05,280
doing is actually allowing to us to hack

1927
01:05:08,630 --> 01:05:06,960
outside of our usual space-time

1928
01:05:10,230 --> 01:05:08,640
construct because

1929
01:05:11,829 --> 01:05:10,240
you're kind of hacking outside of what

1930
01:05:13,430 --> 01:05:11,839
evolution has served up in your normal

1931
01:05:15,990 --> 01:05:13,440
state of consciousness to get through

1932
01:05:17,910 --> 01:05:16,000
the world so i think actually

1933
01:05:19,430 --> 01:05:17,920
we're experiencing more of reality

1934
01:05:20,950 --> 01:05:19,440
sometimes when we're in this altered

1935
01:05:23,349 --> 01:05:20,960
state of consciousness

1936
01:05:25,750 --> 01:05:23,359
um you know when one of the really

1937
01:05:27,990 --> 01:05:25,760
fascinating data points is that

1938
01:05:30,549 --> 01:05:28,000
according to a physicalist model

1939
01:05:32,789 --> 01:05:30,559
um if everything is ultimately located

1940
01:05:35,029 --> 01:05:32,799
in your brain right like in your skull

1941
01:05:36,710 --> 01:05:35,039
and nowhere else then

1942
01:05:38,789 --> 01:05:36,720
if people are having these mind-blowing

1943
01:05:40,870 --> 01:05:38,799
experiences like mind expanding

1944
01:05:43,670 --> 01:05:40,880
consciousness expanding like just these

1945
01:05:45,510 --> 01:05:43,680
stellar experiences on psychedelics we

1946
01:05:47,510 --> 01:05:45,520
should see the brain being lit up right

1947
01:05:49,589 --> 01:05:47,520
we should be able to track that with our

1948
01:05:50,390 --> 01:05:49,599
uh you know our sensor systems and

1949
01:05:52,390 --> 01:05:50,400
whatnot

1950
01:05:54,069 --> 01:05:52,400
what we actually see is the brain looks

1951
01:05:55,349 --> 01:05:54,079
incredibly dormant like not much is

1952
01:05:56,870 --> 01:05:55,359
going on at all

1953
01:05:59,670 --> 01:05:56,880
which immediately contradicts the

1954
01:06:01,270 --> 01:05:59,680
physicalist expectations because

1955
01:06:02,789 --> 01:06:01,280
you're supposed to see a correlation

1956
01:06:05,510 --> 01:06:02,799
there if

1957
01:06:07,349 --> 01:06:05,520
brain matter causes conscious experience

1958
01:06:08,950 --> 01:06:07,359
then if you're having a mind-blowing

1959
01:06:10,710 --> 01:06:08,960
conscious experience you should see it

1960
01:06:12,870 --> 01:06:10,720
lit up in the brain matter and we're not

1961
01:06:14,390 --> 01:06:12,880
seeing that we're seeing the opposite

1962
01:06:15,829 --> 01:06:14,400
which i think suggests we're actually

1963
01:06:18,309 --> 01:06:15,839
hacking outside of the sort of

1964
01:06:20,549 --> 01:06:18,319
evolutionary space-time construct and

1965
01:06:23,430 --> 01:06:20,559
experiencing more of reality and it's

1966
01:06:25,510 --> 01:06:23,440
because we've actually taken our usual

1967
01:06:27,270 --> 01:06:25,520
operating system if you will offline

1968
01:06:28,630 --> 01:06:27,280
that's why it looks like nothing's going

1969
01:06:31,430 --> 01:06:28,640
on with the brain

1970
01:06:33,430 --> 01:06:31,440
but our non-local consciousness

1971
01:06:35,510 --> 01:06:33,440
you can call it that is actually

1972
01:06:37,190 --> 01:06:35,520
experiencing broader reality now in

1973
01:06:40,390 --> 01:06:37,200
terms of whether or not that's the same

1974
01:06:41,750 --> 01:06:40,400
lady could be uh um or but even then i

1975
01:06:43,910 --> 01:06:41,760
would say that

1976
01:06:45,670 --> 01:06:43,920
even people who have experienced uh the

1977
01:06:47,589 --> 01:06:45,680
lady would tell you that or some of them

1978
01:06:49,589 --> 01:06:47,599
anyway would say that when they really

1979
01:06:51,349 --> 01:06:49,599
really feel into it they don't feel like

1980
01:06:53,670 --> 01:06:51,359
that's her true appearance they feel

1981
01:06:55,829 --> 01:06:53,680
like that's a manifestation

1982
01:06:57,430 --> 01:06:55,839
meant to communicate something to us and

1983
01:06:59,589 --> 01:06:57,440
meant to make us feel

1984
01:07:02,549 --> 01:06:59,599
a sense of like a mothering nurturing

1985
01:07:04,390 --> 01:07:02,559
kind of calming it's going to have a a

1986
01:07:05,750 --> 01:07:04,400
you know an effect on us based on our

1987
01:07:07,510 --> 01:07:05,760
history you know

1988
01:07:09,430 --> 01:07:07,520
not just in terms of we had mothers that

1989
01:07:11,029 --> 01:07:09,440
hopefully were caring and nurturing but

1990
01:07:13,029 --> 01:07:11,039
this goes back to the

1991
01:07:15,270 --> 01:07:13,039
the the feminine archetype going back in

1992
01:07:17,190 --> 01:07:15,280
our history right so they have enough

1993
01:07:19,190 --> 01:07:17,200
understanding of us that when they want

1994
01:07:20,789 --> 01:07:19,200
to communicate

1995
01:07:22,150 --> 01:07:20,799
a certain kind of message they show up

1996
01:07:24,069 --> 01:07:22,160
in a certain way

1997
01:07:26,230 --> 01:07:24,079
so as to immediately prime the

1998
01:07:28,150 --> 01:07:26,240
experience with that kind of you know

1999
01:07:29,190 --> 01:07:28,160
preamble or that subject header that

2000
01:07:30,630 --> 01:07:29,200
says

2001
01:07:32,150 --> 01:07:30,640
i'm coming as a mother figure that's

2002
01:07:33,589 --> 01:07:32,160
going to tell you things even if you're

2003
01:07:34,630 --> 01:07:33,599
not consciously aware that it's telling

2004
01:07:35,750 --> 01:07:34,640
you things

2005
01:07:37,270 --> 01:07:35,760
uh so

2006
01:07:39,510 --> 01:07:37,280
so it could be the same but i would just

2007
01:07:41,029 --> 01:07:39,520
say that even there i think that um even

2008
01:07:42,710 --> 01:07:41,039
people who've experienced her have told

2009
01:07:44,150 --> 01:07:42,720
me that

2010
01:07:45,670 --> 01:07:44,160
that's what they experienced because

2011
01:07:48,390 --> 01:07:45,680
that was meant to communicate that's not

2012
01:07:50,789 --> 01:07:48,400
the ultimate form right and that some of

2013
01:07:53,109 --> 01:07:50,799
these beings may not have form right the

2014
01:07:55,270 --> 01:07:53,119
form itself may be part of

2015
01:07:56,870 --> 01:07:55,280
our space-time construct and yet they

2016
01:07:58,789 --> 01:07:56,880
take a form just like

2017
01:08:00,789 --> 01:07:58,799
when i send an email it shows up in a

2018
01:08:02,950 --> 01:08:00,799
certain way in your desktop ultimately

2019
01:08:05,670 --> 01:08:02,960
those are zeros and ones and transistors

2020
01:08:09,029 --> 01:08:05,680
and binary code but we use the the

2021
01:08:11,829 --> 01:08:09,039
familiar uh icon of an email showing up

2022
01:08:12,870 --> 01:08:11,839
right so that we can work with it and

2023
01:08:14,069 --> 01:08:12,880
that's kind of what i think some of

2024
01:08:16,550 --> 01:08:14,079
these others are doing when they when

2025
01:08:17,749 --> 01:08:16,560
they interact with us

2026
01:08:19,269 --> 01:08:17,759
amazing

2027
01:08:21,189 --> 01:08:19,279
i love how you break these things down

2028
01:08:23,189 --> 01:08:21,199
because it does break it down to a level

2029
01:08:24,390 --> 01:08:23,199
where people like myself can can

2030
01:08:26,950 --> 01:08:24,400
understand it

2031
01:08:28,630 --> 01:08:26,960
so i really do appreciate that um

2032
01:08:30,709 --> 01:08:28,640
a couple more questions before we finish

2033
01:08:32,229 --> 01:08:30,719
this is a really interesting one uh from

2034
01:08:33,669 --> 01:08:32,239
andrew hall

2035
01:08:36,950 --> 01:08:33,679
hi vinnie and darren enjoying the

2036
01:08:40,950 --> 01:08:36,960
conversation how important is language

2037
01:08:44,390 --> 01:08:42,870
that's a great question i would say a

2038
01:08:45,829 --> 01:08:44,400
couple things on that

2039
01:08:48,070 --> 01:08:45,839
one is that

2040
01:08:50,390 --> 01:08:48,080
i think part of our challenge and even

2041
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:50,400
donald hoffman's talked about this

2042
01:08:54,390 --> 01:08:52,890
when we try to discuss reality um

2043
01:08:55,829 --> 01:08:54,400
[Music]

2044
01:08:57,829 --> 01:08:55,839
we have certain expectations or

2045
01:08:58,950 --> 01:08:57,839
assumptions like built into our language

2046
01:09:02,309 --> 01:08:58,960
right like

2047
01:09:04,229 --> 01:09:02,319
uh vinnie called darren right so that's

2048
01:09:06,709 --> 01:09:04,239
we have a subject object kind of a

2049
01:09:08,390 --> 01:09:06,719
relationship and our entire language is

2050
01:09:10,390 --> 01:09:08,400
structured with those assumptions about

2051
01:09:11,430 --> 01:09:10,400
reality built in right

2052
01:09:13,269 --> 01:09:11,440
um

2053
01:09:14,789 --> 01:09:13,279
so that sometimes makes it difficult to

2054
01:09:16,229 --> 01:09:14,799
talk about things that don't seem to

2055
01:09:17,430 --> 01:09:16,239
follow those constructs or those

2056
01:09:19,590 --> 01:09:17,440
assumptions

2057
01:09:21,829 --> 01:09:19,600
um and and one of the interesting things

2058
01:09:23,110 --> 01:09:21,839
with language and i studied this uh some

2059
01:09:26,870 --> 01:09:23,120
of my favorite courses were neuro

2060
01:09:28,630 --> 01:09:26,880
linguistics because talks about how

2061
01:09:29,910 --> 01:09:28,640
the way you think determines how you

2062
01:09:31,430 --> 01:09:29,920
structure a language and then the way

2063
01:09:33,110 --> 01:09:31,440
your language is structured also

2064
01:09:34,950 --> 01:09:33,120
therefore determines how you think and

2065
01:09:36,870 --> 01:09:34,960
so you kind of have this feedback loop

2066
01:09:38,550 --> 01:09:36,880
that is uh you know self-enhancing kind

2067
01:09:40,229 --> 01:09:38,560
of thing um

2068
01:09:42,470 --> 01:09:40,239
i would say that first of all and that's

2069
01:09:44,149 --> 01:09:42,480
part of i think our challenge is that

2070
01:09:46,390 --> 01:09:44,159
part of the reason why debunkers are so

2071
01:09:48,709 --> 01:09:46,400
convinced this can't be real is because

2072
01:09:50,070 --> 01:09:48,719
it just doesn't play well with our rules

2073
01:09:51,829 --> 01:09:50,080
right

2074
01:09:53,349 --> 01:09:51,839
and if you are convinced that your rules

2075
01:09:55,189 --> 01:09:53,359
are absolute

2076
01:09:57,669 --> 01:09:55,199
then you assume people are either being

2077
01:10:00,790 --> 01:09:57,679
frauds or they're misunderstanding or

2078
01:10:02,950 --> 01:10:00,800
whatever right uh

2079
01:10:05,030 --> 01:10:02,960
but what i think it's saying and nathan

2080
01:10:07,110 --> 01:10:05,040
talked about this too like how

2081
01:10:09,030 --> 01:10:07,120
over time the body of data becomes so

2082
01:10:12,390 --> 01:10:09,040
overwhelming you have so much outlier

2083
01:10:16,630 --> 01:10:12,400
data that any scientist you know

2084
01:10:17,990 --> 01:10:16,640
worth his uh weight in uh in credibility

2085
01:10:20,229 --> 01:10:18,000
recognizes that if you have enough

2086
01:10:21,270 --> 01:10:20,239
outline data and it continues to uh uh

2087
01:10:23,110 --> 01:10:21,280
you know

2088
01:10:25,669 --> 01:10:23,120
build over time that's telling you

2089
01:10:26,870 --> 01:10:25,679
something about your model is wrong

2090
01:10:28,390 --> 01:10:26,880
you know it's one thing to have a couple

2091
01:10:30,229 --> 01:10:28,400
things here and there that don't fit you

2092
01:10:31,990 --> 01:10:30,239
know like loose threads but when you

2093
01:10:33,189 --> 01:10:32,000
have this mounting evidence you can't

2094
01:10:34,550 --> 01:10:33,199
just keep saying i'm going to put that

2095
01:10:36,390 --> 01:10:34,560
in the closet close the door and pretend

2096
01:10:37,750 --> 01:10:36,400
it doesn't exist

2097
01:10:39,430 --> 01:10:37,760
if you're a scientist driven by

2098
01:10:40,550 --> 01:10:39,440
curiosity which is the whole point of

2099
01:10:44,070 --> 01:10:40,560
science

2100
01:10:45,830 --> 01:10:44,080
then that's telling you something um

2101
01:10:47,430 --> 01:10:45,840
the last thing i would say too uh in

2102
01:10:49,189 --> 01:10:47,440
terms of language what's fascinating

2103
01:10:51,830 --> 01:10:49,199
with experiencer accounts of course is

2104
01:10:53,590 --> 01:10:51,840
that so much of the uh communication is

2105
01:10:55,669 --> 01:10:53,600
telepathic in nature

2106
01:10:57,910 --> 01:10:55,679
and

2107
01:10:59,430 --> 01:10:57,920
but people will often have to think back

2108
01:11:01,270 --> 01:10:59,440
on it and go how did i actually hear

2109
01:11:03,189 --> 01:11:01,280
that was it was it audible or was it in

2110
01:11:04,790 --> 01:11:03,199
my brain but they'll often hear it in

2111
01:11:06,229 --> 01:11:04,800
their native language right and of

2112
01:11:07,669 --> 01:11:06,239
course if these people whether they're

2113
01:11:09,910 --> 01:11:07,679
palladians or

2114
01:11:12,070 --> 01:11:09,920
interdimensional or celestial or

2115
01:11:13,590 --> 01:11:12,080
whatever their origin is clearly they

2116
01:11:15,990 --> 01:11:13,600
probably didn't grow up speaking english

2117
01:11:17,510 --> 01:11:16,000
like you and i right

2118
01:11:19,830 --> 01:11:17,520
and yet there's this substrate of

2119
01:11:22,229 --> 01:11:19,840
consciousness

2120
01:11:25,030 --> 01:11:22,239
that allows for communication that gets

2121
01:11:26,390 --> 01:11:25,040
translated on the fly kind of thing in

2122
01:11:28,630 --> 01:11:26,400
the same way that you might have

2123
01:11:31,189 --> 01:11:28,640
again computer code

2124
01:11:32,470 --> 01:11:31,199
you might you know

2125
01:11:33,830 --> 01:11:32,480
send it in one format and it gets

2126
01:11:34,950 --> 01:11:33,840
translated and someone receives it in

2127
01:11:36,630 --> 01:11:34,960
another

2128
01:11:38,310 --> 01:11:36,640
so

2129
01:11:40,390 --> 01:11:38,320
yeah it's fascinating i think that the

2130
01:11:42,310 --> 01:11:40,400
telepathic part is is really uh

2131
01:11:44,709 --> 01:11:42,320
interesting we should pay attention

2132
01:11:46,550 --> 01:11:44,719
and i would just add that

2133
01:11:48,070 --> 01:11:46,560
it's not just aliens that are telepathic

2134
01:11:50,310 --> 01:11:48,080
again there's all sorts of evidence with

2135
01:11:52,229 --> 01:11:50,320
dean raiden's work and whatnot that we

2136
01:11:54,630 --> 01:11:52,239
too have this capacity so again i think

2137
01:11:56,630 --> 01:11:54,640
this is saying something fundamental

2138
01:11:59,030 --> 01:11:56,640
about consciousness and about us as

2139
01:11:59,830 --> 01:11:59,040
conscious agents

2140
01:12:02,229 --> 01:11:59,840
yeah

2141
01:12:05,110 --> 01:12:02,239
fantastic again just

2142
01:12:06,790 --> 01:12:05,120
amazing how you make things that seem so

2143
01:12:07,990 --> 01:12:06,800
complex

2144
01:12:09,750 --> 01:12:08,000
you just bring them down to a level

2145
01:12:11,510 --> 01:12:09,760
where it's understandable it's

2146
01:12:12,310 --> 01:12:11,520
fascinating and again it's something

2147
01:12:14,229 --> 01:12:12,320
like

2148
01:12:16,390 --> 01:12:14,239
i think what i appreciate about you and

2149
01:12:18,470 --> 01:12:16,400
your podcast and everything is that you

2150
01:12:20,229 --> 01:12:18,480
talk so much about information and data

2151
01:12:23,189 --> 01:12:20,239
and everything but you don't say this is

2152
01:12:25,430 --> 01:12:23,199
definitive it's possibilities and it's a

2153
01:12:28,390 --> 01:12:25,440
very hard thing to do because people

2154
01:12:30,229 --> 01:12:28,400
pick up on beliefs very very quickly

2155
01:12:31,270 --> 01:12:30,239
and that's what i really love about what

2156
01:12:33,350 --> 01:12:31,280
you do

2157
01:12:34,790 --> 01:12:33,360
now i guess my final question is

2158
01:12:36,870 --> 01:12:34,800
and it's one i ask a lot of people is

2159
01:12:40,550 --> 01:12:36,880
what's next what's next for darren

2160
01:12:43,510 --> 01:12:40,560
what's next for axo academia

2161
01:12:45,110 --> 01:12:43,520
good question well i think um

2162
01:12:46,870 --> 01:12:45,120
you know i'm working on a couple books

2163
01:12:49,189 --> 01:12:46,880
right now um that i'm excited about and

2164
01:12:50,870 --> 01:12:49,199
that's partly why i put my podcast on

2165
01:12:53,110 --> 01:12:50,880
both podcasts on hold for the rest of

2166
01:12:54,709 --> 01:12:53,120
the summer so i can focus uh fully on

2167
01:12:58,550 --> 01:12:54,719
those

2168
01:12:59,669 --> 01:12:58,560
one will be out before the other

2169
01:13:02,550 --> 01:12:59,679
the second one will probably be out

2170
01:13:04,070 --> 01:13:02,560
later or next year but the first one

2171
01:13:04,950 --> 01:13:04,080
will be sometime this year and i think

2172
01:13:06,630 --> 01:13:04,960
people are going to really find it

2173
01:13:07,590 --> 01:13:06,640
compelling

2174
01:13:09,030 --> 01:13:07,600
um

2175
01:13:11,750 --> 01:13:09,040
it touches a lot of the stuff we've

2176
01:13:12,870 --> 01:13:11,760
talked about today um specifically but

2177
01:13:14,390 --> 01:13:12,880
i'm not going to say more than that for

2178
01:13:15,110 --> 01:13:14,400
now um

2179
01:13:20,070 --> 01:13:15,120
and

2180
01:13:22,630 --> 01:13:20,080
mean

2181
01:13:24,870 --> 01:13:22,640
i don't want to just read accounts other

2182
01:13:26,070 --> 01:13:24,880
people have but i want to actively

2183
01:13:28,070 --> 01:13:26,080
uh you know

2184
01:13:31,590 --> 01:13:28,080
to steal james phrase engage the

2185
01:13:34,950 --> 01:13:33,430
again with the right protocols in place

2186
01:13:37,030 --> 01:13:34,960
with the right intentionality having

2187
01:13:38,070 --> 01:13:37,040
done the right spiritual hygiene

2188
01:13:40,149 --> 01:13:38,080
i i

2189
01:13:42,630 --> 01:13:40,159
want to use various means to continue to

2190
01:13:44,470 --> 01:13:42,640
reach out and try to make contact um and

2191
01:13:46,709 --> 01:13:44,480
it feels very much two-way just so

2192
01:13:48,070 --> 01:13:46,719
that's clear like i feel like i'm

2193
01:13:50,310 --> 01:13:48,080
i've even experienced what you might

2194
01:13:52,550 --> 01:13:50,320
call download since since monroe and

2195
01:13:54,550 --> 01:13:52,560
that's kind of been continuing

2196
01:13:56,149 --> 01:13:54,560
so i want to continue to pursue that see

2197
01:13:58,390 --> 01:13:56,159
where that goes um

2198
01:14:00,709 --> 01:13:58,400
join together with various people in in

2199
01:14:02,470 --> 01:14:00,719
some of these field experiments you know

2200
01:14:03,990 --> 01:14:02,480
um because again i think there's there's

2201
01:14:06,229 --> 01:14:04,000
real power when you gather with people

2202
01:14:08,950 --> 01:14:06,239
and you have a shared intentionality so

2203
01:14:11,189 --> 01:14:08,960
i want to continue to do that and uh

2204
01:14:12,630 --> 01:14:11,199
just keep pursuing this most fascinating

2205
01:14:14,149 --> 01:14:12,640
question which should be the headline of

2206
01:14:15,510 --> 01:14:14,159
every newspaper in the world and maybe

2207
01:14:16,709 --> 01:14:15,520
it's not yet but maybe one day it will

2208
01:14:19,750 --> 01:14:16,719
be

2209
01:14:21,669 --> 01:14:19,760
amazing i i for one can say that i'm

2210
01:14:23,910 --> 01:14:21,679
really excited to see what happens next

2211
01:14:25,910 --> 01:14:23,920
to read the books and for the return of

2212
01:14:28,229 --> 01:14:25,920
the podcast so

2213
01:14:29,910 --> 01:14:28,239
yeah very exciting stuff um and finally

2214
01:14:31,510 --> 01:14:29,920
i guess i just got to say thank you so

2215
01:14:32,950 --> 01:14:31,520
much man this has been

2216
01:14:34,390 --> 01:14:32,960
seriously and i'm not just saying this

2217
01:14:36,709 --> 01:14:34,400
has been one of the best conversations

2218
01:14:39,110 --> 01:14:36,719
i've had in a long time so i cannot

2219
01:14:40,550 --> 01:14:39,120
thank you enough man oh vinny i

2220
01:14:42,070 --> 01:14:40,560
appreciate that it's been great meeting

2221
01:14:43,189 --> 01:14:42,080
you in person and let's do it again in

2222
01:14:45,430 --> 01:14:43,199
the future

2223
01:14:47,030 --> 01:14:45,440
absolutely man i'd love to have you back

2224
01:14:48,709 --> 01:14:47,040
on and maybe after the books have come

2225
01:14:50,870 --> 01:14:48,719
out and we've got some more things to

2226
01:14:53,430 --> 01:14:50,880
talk about i mean i'm sure we could talk

2227
01:14:54,630 --> 01:14:53,440
about anything to be honest but

2228
01:14:56,070 --> 01:14:54,640
just want to say a big shout out to

2229
01:14:57,830 --> 01:14:56,080
everybody in the live chat for having

2230
01:14:59,990 --> 01:14:57,840
such a great conversation asking such

2231
01:15:02,470 --> 01:15:00,000
fantastic questions i'm sorry if i

2232
01:15:04,229 --> 01:15:02,480
missed some of them it is sometimes a

2233
01:15:05,910 --> 01:15:04,239
little bit difficult i have got some

2234
01:15:08,709 --> 01:15:05,920
great moderators here who do their best

2235
01:15:10,470 --> 01:15:08,719
as well so thank you guys as well um i'm

2236
01:15:13,510 --> 01:15:10,480
going to be back midweek with katie

2237
01:15:15,910 --> 01:15:13,520
holland to discuss the ndaa the iaa and

2238
01:15:17,990 --> 01:15:15,920
a lot of government related uh topics

2239
01:15:19,750 --> 01:15:18,000
for now guys thank you so much enjoy the

2240
01:15:21,669 --> 01:15:19,760
rest of your saturday enjoy the rest of

2241
01:15:23,350 --> 01:15:21,679
your weekend and i will see you soon